St George handicap replacement

[senator8]

I think you guys are missing the point a bit. Grading should be based on experience. Not just times. Times need to play a part, but I’ll come back to that. It’s about motivation and competing against your peers. My complaint and disappointment in the beginning was that I’d just started racing and the riders that had started at a similar time were not also moved.
EG; Dan, Marty, Bob, Saturnalian, Jashdown, Condor, Phat3r etc (sorry if I left you out – you get the picture) All have come in together and I’m sure would like to remain in the same game so to speak. Yes? I came in with Little Mick, Displaced, Skizzi and Cerby from Rats etc. During that time the times have swapped places between the guys I came in with and I’m sure the same will happen with the new group I mentioned.
Why should I have to compete against Kev Curtain, Phil Lovett etc in A grade just because I’ve improved. That would be more de-motivating than what happened to me in the first place. They are not my peers so to speak. Just like most other sports, schools clubs etc, it should be based on experience mostly. So my system is based around similar. You enter the system and move through it with riders of the same experience and if you’re a little ahead of the pack then you may skip a year and if you’re a little slower then you have the option of redoing a year.

I also think that grading should have some flexibility to be class based as well. All this is not as complicated as it sounds as the classes haven’t changed much at all for some time far as I can see. But again I’ll come back to this

I don’t think there is a need for novice races, but as we had at FXRRC last year. A one off novice race to kick the day off can’t hurt. (sort of a single race single round championship)

For the purpose of this system a year is Jan - Dec

Novice (D) grade
You are considered a D grader until you have completed (finished) 12 races or more by the end of a year. If you did not complete 12 races then you number of races completed can be rolled over to a second year only. Example – 3x race meetings, 10x races finished, 1x DNF, 1x DNS = starts the 2nd year with 10x races completed. Completes the 2nd year as a D grader.

C Grade
2 Years - or if your times are consistently in the top 30% of your class then 1 year. Example – rider comes in form D grade in 600s. In his now 2nd year of racing he is regularly finishing in the top 30% of the entire field. Then he will move to B Grade the following year. Regularly means 75% of the time. It’s no harder than drawing a line across the results for any race. Rider is either above or below it.

B Grade
This grade should be the longest stint and the class that has people move in and out of it as we start to get towards those that can, and those that probably won’t get a lot faster
2 Years - or if your times are consistently in the top 30% of your class then 1 year. Example – rider comes in from C grade in 1000s. In his now 3rd or 4th year of racing he is regularly finishing in the top 30% of the entire field. Then he will move to A Grade the following year. Regularly means 75% of the time. It’s no harder than drawing a line across the results for any race. Rider is either above or below it. Now if the B grader is regularly finishing below 50% of the field then the rider has the option of moving back to C Grade until he regularly finishes above 50% of the field in a year.

A Grade
The most experienced and fastest grade.
You become A grade after you have gone through the sytem and should now have a minimum of 3 years if your faster than the average or 5 years if you went through as per the grading system.
If your finishes are regularly below the top 30% of the field, then you have the option of dropping to B grade the following year or until you are above 30% of the field in which case you must move back up to A grade.

Class Grades
You may nominate to run a grade lower if it is your first year in that class but D grade cannot be nominated. Example – rider is a B grader in 600s and wants to try 1000s or go to 1000s the following season. In either case he has the option to compete in 1000s for the 1st year at a grade lower after which his Lic grade or normal grade requirements apply.

Other reasons you may change grades.
If a rider stops racing then the experience or time factor works in reverse. But no lower than C grade unless more than 5 year absence. Example – B grader completes 2 years then has a break. No racing for one year he come back as B grade and if his finishes and times dictate he will then keep going to A. If he takes a 2 year break he will come back as a 2nd year C grader etc

It’s only a rough, but it is a system I would be happy with and can be applied retrospectively to the existing grades. It evens out the results with some riders being faster only on one track etc I also think that it is fair and objective.

I may have also made some mistakes! I was trying to do as quickly as possible before work got the better of me.

[Phat3R]

Wow some good ideas floating around there.

Some questions:

1. Re the earlier discussion about the likes of very fast riders in D/Novice such as JC or Graham, how will this address that? From what I read it may extend it?

2. Years are a tricky measure, what do you do in terms of counting when someone is off 6 months through injury ... does that count or not? Could we move away from years to race meets or races as that's what you are suggesting as the measurement for D grade, and it's good to have a consistent measurement stick?

3. Lap times are consistently in the top 30% of your class. I got your idea re consistent - 75%. But to be clear what exactly does top 30% of class means. I assume it's on a per race basis (you can't easily compare lap times consistently outside a race due to conditions).
On a class by class basis:
a. Lay out all the lap times from slowest to fastest, then calculate 30 the difference and add it to the fastest lap time as the cut off. Issue there is there may be some very slow laps due to mechanical issues.
b. Or just take the fastest lap time and multiply by 1.3 as the cut off.
c. Or get an average of all lap times within a race and use a multiplier on that to determine cut off?
d. Or top 30% of positions in a race ... very easy measurement, no lap times required and relative hence not weather dependent.

Sorry these probably sound like stoopid q's but somehow we need to write a very precise formula for MoMS. I think it's preferable to have specific codified rules with no need for discretion by officials, otherwise it can quickly devolve to current situation.

I think you guys are missing the point a bit. Grading should be based on experience. Not just times. Times need to play a part, but I’ll come back to that. It’s about motivation and competing against your peers. My complaint and disappointment in the beginning was that I’d just started racing and the riders that had started at a similar time were not also moved.
EG; Dan, Marty, Bob, Saturnalian, Jashdown, Condor, Phat3r etc (sorry if I left you out – you get the picture) All have come in together and I’m sure would like to remain in the same game so to speak. Yes? I came in with Little Mick, Displaced, Skizzi and Cerby from Rats etc. During that time the times have swapped places between the guys I came in with and I’m sure the same will happen with the new group I mentioned.
Why should I have to compete against Kev Curtain, Phil Lovett etc in A grade just because I’ve improved. That would be more de-motivating than what happened to me in the first place. They are not my peers so to speak. Just like most other sports, schools clubs etc, it should be based on experience mostly. So my system is based around similar. You enter the system and move through it with riders of the same experience and if you’re a little ahead of the pack then you may skip a year and if you’re a little slower then you have the option of redoing a year.

I also think that grading should have some flexibility to be class based as well. All this is not as complicated as it sounds as the classes haven’t changed much at all for some time far as I can see. But again I’ll come back to this

I don’t think there is a need for novice races, but as we had at FXRRC last year. A one off novice race to kick the day off can’t hurt. (sort of a single race single round championship)

For the purpose of this system a year is Jan - Dec

Novice (D) grade
You are considered a D grader until you have completed (finished) 12 races or more by the end of a year. If you did not complete 12 races then you number of races completed can be rolled over to a second year only. Example – 3x race meetings, 10x races finished, 1x DNF, 1x DNS = starts the 2nd year with 10x races completed. Completes the 2nd year as a D grader.

C Grade
2 Years - or if your times are consistently in the top 30% of your class then 1 year. Example – rider comes in form D grade in 600s. In his now 2nd year of racing he is regularly finishing in the top 30% of the entire field. Then he will move to B Grade the following year. Regularly means 75% of the time. It’s no harder than drawing a line across the results for any race. Rider is either above or below it.

B Grade
This grade should be the longest stint and the class that has people move in and out of it as we start to get towards those that can, and those that probably won’t get a lot faster
2 Years - or if your times are consistently in the top 30% of your class then 1 year. Example – rider comes in from C grade in 1000s. In his now 3rd or 4th year of racing he is regularly finishing in the top 30% of the entire field. Then he will move to A Grade the following year. Regularly means 75% of the time. It’s no harder than drawing a line across the results for any race. Rider is either above or below it. Now if the B grader is regularly finishing below 50% of the field then the rider has the option of moving back to C Grade until he regularly finishes above 50% of the field in a year.

A Grade
The most experienced and fastest grade.
You become A grade after you have gone through the sytem and should now have a minimum of 3 years if your faster than the average or 5 years if you went through as per the grading system.
If your finishes are regularly below the top 30% of the field, then you have the option of dropping to B grade the following year or until you are above 30% of the field in which case you must move back up to A grade.

Class Grades
You may nominate to run a grade lower if it is your first year in that class but D grade cannot be nominated. Example – rider is a B grader in 600s and wants to try 1000s or go to 1000s the following season. In either case he has the option to compete in 1000s for the 1st year at a grade lower after which his Lic grade or normal grade requirements apply.

Other reasons you may change grades.
If a rider stops racing then the experience or time factor works in reverse. But no lower than C grade unless more than 5 year absence. Example – B grader completes 2 years then has a break. No racing for one year he come back as B grade and if his finishes and times dictate he will then keep going to A. If he takes a 2 year break he will come back as a 2nd year C grader etc

It’s only a rough, but it is a system I would be happy with and can be applied retrospectively to the existing grades. It evens out the results with some riders being faster only on one track etc I also think that it is fair and objective.

I may have also made some mistakes! I was trying to do as quickly as possible before work got the better of me.