St George handicap replacement

[Marshy]

that may be true but 2 years ago he was out there what seemed like every weekend cutting laps at track days and super bike schools, and he was damn quick then too.

Right! And under my plan he wouldn't have been eligible for Novice anyway (lots of previous MX racing), but even if he had been, he'd have won the first weekend in Novice and immediately been bumped up.

[Negrogrande]

% of lap record for the class.

Most will find they are a similar % off the respective lap record on each bike they ride.

Enforce quali cut offs and run a novice race.

This!! Perfect.

+2

[Marty]

Thanks for clearing it up for me Nick. It's how I suspected it worked.

I'll be spewing if they move me up to C next year after 3 race meetings (9 races) this year. I can qualify ok but can't race for shit

[dan]

You should get bonus points for riding a GSXR600 and lose points for riding an R6 haha

[Phat3R]

You should get bonus points for riding a GSXR600 and lose points for riding an R6 haha

I second that ...

[Team Zero]

In my world you have to be over 40 to race and you get bumped up a grade every time you finish in front of an R6 with the number 72. In all seriousness though I love the % idea. The only thought is that people being people might try and game the system.

[Negrogrande]

You should get bonus points for riding a GSXR600 and lose points for riding an R6 haha

I second that ...

Third!

[Phat3R]

Thanks for clearing it up for me Nick. It's how I suspected it worked.

I'll be spewing if they move me up to C next year after 3 race meetings (9 races) this year. I can qualify ok but can't race for shit

We are aware that your plight has highlighted the inconsistencies and we will be addressing them ... neva.

I think they should move you up to C ... and take Dan with you too ... when he's off crutches

[Phat3R]

Hi Rick,
Sorry I didn't have better news for you.

We are aware that your plight has highlighted the inconsistencies and we will be addressing them.

Regards

If the body responsible doesn't have the resources to do the grading correctly ... then why do it at all?

[Marshy]

If the body responsible doesn't have the resources to do the grading correctly ... then why do it at all?

Mostly this:





My view:





And then there's this:

[Phat3R]

Mostly this:





My view:





And then there's this:

+1 Google LOL

[tempest]

remember you can only be graded at the start of the year, what happens if you buy another bike and you just get fast through the year?
also the quali cut offs sound good but it's way to much work for the club volunteers to do on the day

I don't think there is a solution that comes even close to covering 80% of the various scenarios, you could have no major end of year prizes, just round prizes...but the club has it's traditions which need to be respected.

the club is only what its members want.

grading done once per year can be ok, but as Marshy said mid year is plausible also.

quali cut off is a simple number and absolutely no issue to work out.

in the current climate of egos and race series, the worst thing a racer with any interest in staying in lower gradings can do is race club meets. this seems to be the only place where re-grading occurs.

a simple percentage formula is now very easy to use based on results across ALL series.

[Nelso]

Thanks for clearing it up for me Nick. It's how I suspected it worked.

I'll be spewing if they move me up to C next year after 3 race meetings (9 races) this year. I can qualify ok but can't race for shit

After 3 race meets, you will definitely get moved up to C. As has been said, D grade is meant to be only for novices, so you do fit the criteria to go up for next year. Everyone has to start looking at D grade differently and look at C grade as the bottom group, with D there just for the first timers. The only problem with the system at the moment is the experienced riders coming in as D graders like Macarthy and Grasshopper and people doing Race Your Mates and not admitting that it is racing.

[Nelso]

I like the idea of renaming D grade to novice. And I also like the idea that you automatically get moved up in your second year of racing or after any 3 race meets, even mid year, as it will encourage newbies to give racing a go if they are only competing with other newbies.

I only raced once last year. My very first race was the last round of St George and I did a mid 1:44 on the GP circuit. The winner of D grade that race meet did consistent 1:39's and had raced in FX as well as St George the year before. I couldn't understand why he was still in D grade and thought it was not the best thing to encourage beginners to have someone doing those times in the 'novice' group as it sends the message that unless you're super quick, you're not fast enough to race. The only reason I didn't go up to C grade at the start of this year was because I had only ever done one race meet, but I was prepared to be bumped up to C grade if they thought I should because of the times I had done. I know people who were moved up to C for this year that had slower times than me but had raced in more than one meet and some of them were annoyed that I was kept in D grade and that they didn't have a chance to win a title because they were now racing against C graders. In the last round it didn't matter either way as C and D grade were thrown in together. As a D grader, I never made it into the 30's, but I did get a 1:40.4 at the NSW Titles, which was my 3rd race meet. I honestly think I should have been bumped up after that. I can't wait to get regraded as it is a bit embarrassing to admit that I'm only a D grader, especially since my wife is a B grader.

What's my point? Suck it up and be happy to get out of D grade as soon as possible, as it means you are now considered a REAL racer.

[dan]

I think they should move you up to C ... and take Dan with you too ... when he's off crutches

Oi I'm johnny-one-race leave me out of this!

[dan]

Oi I'm johnny-one-race leave me out of this!

In all seriousness though I'm looking forward to moving up to C grade. I'm pretty happy doing what I'm doing on the equipment I have and I look forward to [hopefully] constantly improving and getting amongst the C graders on much faster machines on my tired and much suffering old, fat GSXR - and maybe even turning a few heads.

When I want to start taking shots at B graders it might be time to upgrade

[Marty]

After 3 race meets, you will definitely get moved up to C. As has been said, D grade is meant to be only for novices, so you do fit the criteria to go up for next year. Everyone has to start looking at D grade differently and look at C grade as the bottom group, with D there just for the first timers. The only problem with the system at the moment is the experienced riders coming in as D graders like Macarthy and Grasshopper and people doing Race Your Mates and not admitting that it is racing.

Seems fair then, I was just surprised to count 17 D graders in Clubsport 600 last meetings. Is it safe to say that they are all in their first year of club racing? (Ignoring the two aliens)

If so than that's awesome! I remember reading that club racing was dying out but the turn out round5-6 was pretty impressive. I'm badgering some of my mates to take the plunge.

[Mr.Ed]

Maybe the 3 races before getting bumped to C should also have some sort of time frame to be done in as well... My next race meeting wil be my 3rd one but by then it will very likely have been 2+ years since my first meeting. The fact that haven't ridden AT ALL for almost 12 didn't make me any faster either let alone more experienced.

[Nelso]

Maybe the 3 races before getting bumped to C should also have some sort of time frame to be done in as well... My next race meeting wil be my 3rd one but by then it will very likely have been 2+ years since my first meeting. The fact that haven't ridden AT ALL for almost 12 didn't make me any faster either let alone more experienced.

Anything under two and a half minutes on the GP circuit would be considered good enough for C grade Ed. As I said, consider C as the bottom grade, because that's what the officials do. You will still be fast enough for C grade in Jan's eyes, no matter how slow you come back.

[Nelso]

When Leanne came back to racing, she hadn't raced in 10 years and she had to come back as a C grader. She did one race meet in the women's race and did a best of 1:44.0 and they put her up to B grade for this year. You seriously can't complain about going up to C grade if you are doing sub 1:50's.

[Phat3R]

When Leanne came back to racing, she hadn't raced in 10 years and she had to come back as a C grader. She did one race meet in the women's race and did a best of 1:44.0 and they put her up to B grade for this year. You seriously can't complain about going up to C grade if you are doing sub 1:50's.

I'm farked then ... that waz my first meet ... I just wanted to avoid breaking the bike again. I managed to finally break into the under 1:50's on the GP Circuit by the end of the Sunday ... and I run permanently up the back of the field ... so C 4 me 2??? Then I'm going to write to Jan to suggest Graheme, JC, Dan, Condor, Jashdown and Bob all be given a complimentary upgrade to A/B grade!
http://racing.natsoft.com.au/6366257...6.86U/Times?14

[chubb]

Little Mick got graded to C only after one meet at WP last year.

I did the same (4 hour) but stayed in D. Go figure.

[chubb]

.. so C 4 me 2??? Then I'm going to write to Jan to suggest Graheme, JC, Dan, Condor, Jashdown and Bob all be given a complimentary upgrade to A/B grade!
http://racing.natsoft.com.au/6366257...6.86U/Times?14

It is very possible they skip a grade due to their times if all in a perfect world.

[Mr.Ed]

To be honest, if I'm riding against other legit C graders, then I'm more than happy to move up even now before the 3rd race meeting... but the fact is, on my first race ever (St.George) a D grader was doing 35s on a R6. Pretty annoying if I get bumped to C and have something like that happen again.

[dan]

I'm farked then ... that waz my first meet ... I just wanted to avoid breaking the bike again. I managed to finally break into the under 1:50's on the GP Circuit by the end of the Sunday ... and I run permanently up the back of the field ... so C 4 me 2??? Then I'm going to write to Jan to suggest Graheme, JC, Dan, Condor, Jashdown and Bob all be given a complimentary upgrade to A/B grade!
http://racing.natsoft.com.au/6366257...6.86U/Times?14

I'm not even on that list!

[Phat3R]

To be honest, if I'm riding against other legit C graders, then I'm more than happy to move up even now before the 3rd race meeting... but the fact is, on my first race ever (St.George) a D grader was doing 35s on a R6. Pretty annoying if I get bumped to C and have something like that happen again.

Don't follow, which class was that 35s? The 600cc ABCD & 600cc Retro ABCD record is 1:36.0050R?
http://racing.natsoft.com.au/6366257....86U/Result?20

[Phat3R]

I'm not even on that list!

Oh you're on that list Dan ... I'll tell Jan not to be swayed by stories one race and broken bones or boxes of chocolates ... Hey was good to see you guys on Sun ... pity the weather was a washout.

[dan]

Oh you're on that list Dan ... I'll tell Jan not to be swayed by stories one race and broken bones or boxes of chocolates ... Hey was good to see you guys on Sun ... pity the weather was a washout.

Yeah was good to be out there seeing everyone. Weird being a spectator!

[Mr.Ed]

Don't follow, which class was that 35s? The 600cc ABCD & 600cc Retro ABCD record is 1:36.0050R?
http://racing.natsoft.com.au/6366257....86U/Result?20

Actually had to go back in time to check that out... and we're both wrong!

I was wrong by quoting the wrong grade to right lap time (although a D grader lapping consistently in the 1:40 bracket is hardly fair but I digress)... the rider was actually a B grader, I reckon I was traumatized by his speed or it's simply that it's been so long now that my brain has already started working a more fancy version of the events! hahahaha

But how is this for a fastest lap time on that race?

http://racing.natsoft.com.au/6366285...20.86O/View?28

[Little Mick]

link not working Ed

[Marty]

The Natsoft links expire after x amount of time to make it harder for ppl like me to write program's to harvest the data.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk HD

[Phat3R]

The Natsoft links expire after x amount of time to make it harder for ppl like me to write program's to harvest the data.
Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk HD

Yeah mine expired too ... well a picture is worth a thousand words ...

NatSoftR14StG.jpg

[Phat3R]

Anyway ... I think Nelso and others make some great points ... D Grade should be for new racers only ... and probably for ONLY their first race ... and it should be renamed it so it doesn't have the word grade in it. C Grade is where the real grades begin.

I look back on my first race weekend, and when asked by people how I went, my first answer was I survived, learned heaps and had great fun. If pushed I tell friends my best finish was 25th out of roughly 35ish (it's hard to see where the DNF's stop and the DNS's start). I say I broke into 1:13's for Nth Circuit and 1:50's for GP. I have no idea how I went in the D grade, but given it's grading / composition ... it's pretty irrelevant?

Maybe D Grade trophies should be seen like the gold star I got in kindie for not wetting my pants between recess and lunch ... at the time IT WAS an achievement ... but it's not something I put on my CV now.

[Apologies to Dan ... but I saw your 7th in qually on the second day as what I most remembered of your stellar performance over the weekend. Well along with some porn footage on how to hump a bike between T11/T12 ]

[Marty]

Yeh Phat3R I see your point. I did my first race in round 3 at Wakey. I was more worried about passing scrutinieering than the races. My only goal was to make it through the day in one piece. I finished last in 2 races but couldnt have cared less. My next races were 5&6 with you guys and I was a million times more confident going into it (partly because EC is my home track tho), I didn't have the nerves. I set out to try and do better, which I think I did.

I've seen in some overseas racing they have the novices wear a fluro vest or displayed a P plate etc. I think that's a good idea because you don't know who your up against, maybe people would give a bit more space to a novice if they knew they were one. Also it's a little embarrassing so it encourages you not to want to be in D grade any longer than you need to be..

[Mr.Ed]

well a picture is worth a thousand words ...

Amen to that!!

[dan]

Anyway ... I think Nelso and others make some great points ... D Grade should be for new racers only ... and probably for ONLY their first race ... and it should be renamed it so it doesn't have the word grade in it. C Grade is where the real grades begin.

I look back on my first race weekend, and when asked by people how I went, my first answer was I survived, learned heaps and had great fun. If pushed I tell friends my best finish was 25th out of roughly 35ish (it's hard to see where the DNF's stop and the DNS's start). I say I broke into 1:13's for Nth Circuit and 1:50's for GP. I have no idea how I went in the D grade, but given it's grading / composition ... it's pretty irrelevant?

Maybe D Grade trophies should be seen like the gold star I got in kindie for not wetting my pants between recess and lunch ... at the time IT WAS an achievement ... but it's not something I put on my CV now.

[Apologies to Dan ... but I saw your 7th in qually on the second day as what I most remembered of your stellar performance over the weekend. Well along with some porn footage on how to hump a bike between T11/T12 ]

I absolutely agree. My trophy is akin to an encouragement award and something to show my mates. I'm way more stoked about qualifying 7th and probably would have broken into 1.43s if I hadnt fucked my 5-6th shift on that lap.

D shouldnt be a grade as it confuses the issue. Rename D novice with the purpose to move people on to C grade. This is motorcycle racing and we are all adults - there doesnt need to be 12 trophies for each category.

[dan]

I've seen in some overseas racing they have the novices wear a fluro vest or displayed a P plate etc. I think that's a good idea because you don't know who your up against, maybe people would give a bit more space to a novice if they knew they were one. Also it's a little embarrassing so it encourages you not to want to be in D grade any longer than you need to be..

I think this is a great idea. No one wants to be the little bitch in fluro for longer than they are forced to be.

[DisPlaCeD]

Are you all serious?? F*ck me, if I could spend 10 years racing MX and only doing track days and CSS etc before I went road racing, to be better equipped when I made the change, who is anyone else to judge me, what, just because they are slower?? Seriously? Wake up. Now, back on topic... sounding like a bunch of whiney bitches...

[dan]

Are you all serious?? F*ck me, if I could spend 10 years racing MX and only doing track days and CSS etc before I went road racing, to be better equipped when I made the change, who is anyone else to judge me, what, just because they are slower?? Seriously? Wake up. Now, back on topic... sounding like a bunch of whiney bitches...

I'm not quite sure what part you are frustrated about in this discussion?

[Phat3R]

I'm not quite sure what part you are frustrated about in this discussion?

Soundz like a Tourettes attack, makes no sense to me either? I hope he's OK :-)

[Nelso]

Mitch Levy has been racing since 2008, Michael Blair, Callum Spriggs and Mark Bailey have raced since 2011, Grahame McCarthy was an A grader overseas. McCarthy did 4 races last year as a D grader and came back as a D grader this year despite doing a 1:40! Mitch Levy is still in C grade this year after racing for years and doing a 1:37's last year, yet Little Mick went up to C grade after doing 1:45's and Leanne went to B grade after doing 1:44's. The grading system is a fucking joke!

I'm all for renaming D grade as Novice, wearing newb vests and having no prizes as it will stop people like McCarthy from wanting to race in it.

Whatever they do, they need to sort it out, as the situation as it is now is pointless.

[chubb]

Mitch Levy has been racing since 2008, Michael Blair, Callum Spriggs and Mark Bailey have raced since 2011, Grahame McCarthy was an A grader overseas. McCarthy did 4 races last year as a D grader and came back as a D grader this year despite doing a 1:40! Mitch Levy is still in C grade this year after racing for years and doing a 1:37's last year, yet Little Mick went up to C grade after doing 1:45's and Leanne went to B grade after doing 1:44's. The grading system is a fucking joke!

I'm all for renaming D grade as Novice, wearing newb vests and having no prizes as it will stop people like McCarthy from wanting to race in it.

Whatever they do, they need to sort it out, as the situation as it is now is pointless.

This!!!

[Mr.Ed]

Mitch Levy has been racing since 2008, Michael Blair, Callum Spriggs and Mark Bailey have raced since 2011, Grahame McCarthy was an A grader overseas. McCarthy did 4 races last year as a D grader and came back as a D grader this year despite doing a 1:40! Mitch Levy is still in C grade this year after racing for years and doing a 1:37's last year, yet Little Mick went up to C grade after doing 1:45's and Leanne went to B grade after doing 1:44's. The grading system is a fucking joke!

I'm all for renaming D grade as Novice, wearing newb vests and having no prizes as it will stop people like McCarthy from wanting to race in it.

Whatever they do, they need to sort it out, as the situation as it is now is pointless.

Thank you. That is exactly how I feel about it. All they need to do is to fix the stupid gradings... but in order to do that, they have to do away with what seems to be the 'mates' system'! 'Cause that's the only explanation for the ridiculous gradings mentioned above.

[senator8]

Mitch Levy has been racing since 2008, Michael Blair, Callum Spriggs and Mark Bailey have raced since 2011, Grahame McCarthy was an A grader overseas. McCarthy did 4 races last year as a D grader and came back as a D grader this year despite doing a 1:40! Mitch Levy is still in C grade this year after racing for years and doing a 1:37's last year, yet Little Mick went up to C grade after doing 1:45's and Leanne went to B grade after doing 1:44's. The grading system is a fucking joke!

I'm all for renaming D grade as Novice, wearing newb vests and having no prizes as it will stop people like McCarthy from wanting to race in it.

Whatever they do, they need to sort it out, as the situation as it is now is pointless.

Yep, some sort of sick joke. It's beyond funny.
I started not even thinking about it now. I just want to get closer to the front (near the d graders) on the BMW and Pcra isn't graded.

[DisPlaCeD]

I'm not quite sure what part you are frustrated about in this discussion?

I'm frustrated with people having a whinge, over who is faster than them, with aforementioned parties, not being on this forum to defend themselves. Let's put it like this... Kev Curtin... been racing for decades, A grade rider, loses Yamaha sponsorship, gets an injury, puts him into the 1:50 bracket... by some people's theory on here, based on his prior experience, he should still be an A grader, but is lapping at D grade pace... what then? Hardly seems fair...

I figure, yep, people are faster than me in my grade... it will happen in every grade, deal with it. Try and go faster. As senator8 said, don't think about it, and go out and race!!

[dan]

That really sums it up. Completely ridiculous.

[Phat3R]

Thank you. That is exactly how I feel about it. All they need to do is to fix the stupid gradings... but in order to do that, they have to do away with what seems to be the 'mates' system'! 'Cause that's the only explanation for the ridiculous gradings mentioned above.

I honestly doubt it's any sort of conspiracy ... more a matter of resources ... there are only a few older members that appear to do the lions share of the admin for the club ... as volunteers and for nix ... and from the meetings I've attended they appeared to me to be flat out organising the great events they already put on across a wide range of MC disciplines ... maybe should put together a formal proposal for a change in grading along the lines discussed ... but from Rick's correspondence it seems to involve some other bodies too???

[dan]

I'm frustrated with people having a whinge, over who is faster than them, with aforementioned parties, not being on this forum to defend themselves. Let's put it like this... Kev Curtin... been racing for decades, A grade rider, loses Yamaha sponsorship, gets an injury, puts him into the 1:50 bracket... by some people's theory on here, based on his prior experience, he should still be an A grader, but is lapping at D grade pace... what then? Hardly seems fair...

I figure, yep, people are faster than me in my grade... it will happen in every grade, deal with it. Try and go faster. As senator8 said, don't think about it, and go out and race!!

I don't think that's what people are saying. If Kev Curtin is lapping 1.50s then he should be in D Grade (or whatever). I think the issue that is being discussed is people lapping 1.40s and being in D Grade where that is the speed of AB grade.

I'm also not taking what people are saying as having a go at riders, they are having a go at the system. Anything said is based on fact - Rider X laps at A Grade pace. Rider X has this much previous experience. Rider X is in D grade.

No one has an issue with someone being faster than another in a certain grade. When someone is in D Grade and is lapping at an A Grade pace the question must surely be why is that person in D Grade - otherwise what is the point of the grading system?

[Phat3R]

I'm frustrated with people having a whinge, over who is faster than them, with aforementioned parties, not being on this forum to defend themselves. Let's put it like this... Kev Curtin... been racing for decades, A grade rider, loses Yamaha sponsorship, gets an injury, puts him into the 1:50 bracket... by some people's theory on here, based on his prior experience, he should still be an A grader, but is lapping at D grade pace... what then? Hardly seems fair...

I figure, yep, people are faster than me in my grade... it will happen in every grade, deal with it. Try and go faster. As senator8 said, don't think about it, and go out and race!!

Your argument is self contradictory ... if the grades don't matter then KC won't care which grade he comes back in ... and if he does care ... why are we being accused of being whingers discussing something he apparently cares about ???

Complete logic fail.

[Phat3R]

If my reading glasses are not deceiving me same class ... so how can the Apr 8 1:34.6308R be eclipsed on Nov 3 with a 1:36.3390R. Is the record just for the meet or something ...

NatSoftR14StG.jpg

Amen to that!!