Superbike tail vs road tail?

[Marty]

I've currently got the superbike style tail on my bike and had nothing but problems with it. The holes where the seat mounts ream out and I've had to dodgy up washers and things to keep it from wearing through. I just noticed bolts that mount the seat have damaged my leathers from sliding over it. The tail is so beaten up I'm looking to replace just that peice of the kit. I'm seriously considering going back to the stock seat and road style tail, I don't really see anyone doing it, which is why I went with the sbk tail originally.

What are the pros and cons of doing it. I can't see there being a significant weight difference. The only thing I can think of is you'd sit higher up on the bike but that might actually be better. Obviously the bike was designed to sit at that height.

Has anyone here swapped from one type to the other? If so for what reason?

Cheers
Marty

[Marty]

Sorry when I say road tail I mean race glass tail which accepts the stock seat, not the OEM road tail.

[chubb]

I've used both and I prefer the stock seat on the R6.

When I moved to the super bike tail the seat eventually destroyed itself with at the mounting points.

My arse was so sore after every trackday and worse still if doing a double or triple header.

Went back to the stock seat. More comfy and you still can feel everything that the bike is doing.

That's my preference.

[Marty]

I've used both and I prefer the stock seat on the R6.

When I moved to the super bike tail the seat eventually destroyed itself with at the mounting points.

My arse was so sore after every trackday and worse still if doing a double or triple header.

Went back to the stock seat. More comfy and you still can feel everything that the bike is doing.

That's my preference.

Yeh that's my feelings exactly, I'm just wondering why the sbk tail is so popular.

[Marshy]

Like chubb, I've tried both on many bikes over the years, and I've always had a strong preference for the stock seat. It's more 'solid' yet softer and more pliant (read comfortable!). The foam seat is harder and less easy to slide your bum over. It's also often less 'fixed' or solid, despite being harder, although this comes down to how solidly you've mounted your tail. Also, getting to the battery/quickshifter/power commander is muuuuch easier with the stock seat!! All my racebikes have stock seats.

If anyone wants to, Superbike Source can supply just a stock-seat race fairing tail on it's own, without buying the whole kit, for most makes and models. PM me if interested. Most bikes will cost $160 shipped to you for members (retail is more).

[Marty]

Like chubb, I've tried both on many bikes over the years, and I've always had a strong preference for the stock seat. It's more 'solid' yet softer and more pliant (read comfortable!). The foam seat is harder and less easy to slide your bum over. It's also often less 'fixed' or solid, despite being harder, although this comes down to how solidly you've mounted your tail. Also, getting to the battery/quickshifter/power commander is muuuuch easier with the stock seat!! All my racebikes have stock seats.

If anyone wants to, Superbike Source can supply just a stock-seat race fairing tail on it's own, without buying the whole kit, for most makes and models. PM me if interested. Most bikes will cost $160 shipped to you for members (retail is more).

Thanks mate I think I'm sold. I was having a quick look at your site earlier and for my bike it looks like I will also need a tank cover judging by the photos.

[BoB]

Marty , depending on the brand of glass . If its a hotbodies with the seat that wraps upto and on the sides then you can modify the original side pieces to fit and still use the tank cover.

[Marty]

Marty , depending on the brand of glass . If its a hotbodies with the seat that wraps upto and on the sides then you can modify the original side pieces to fit and still use the tank cover.

My glass is the same type that lots of places including marshy sell. I don't think I'd be able to mod it. A new tank cover wouldn't go stray anyway, I've had to re-drill some mount points and it's pretty rough

[Mr.Ed]

Just 'cause I like to be different... I prefer the superbike tail

[Marshy]

Just 'cause I like to be different... I prefer the superbike tail

You find it comfy because you only look at it, not use it. Baddie prefers them too....




Oh c'mon, you walked into that one!!!!

[Mr.Ed]

I don't find it comfy at all... I prefer it 'cause I reckon it gives a better feeback from the rear wheel spinning and etc. Then again it could be all in my head... that's where I ride most of the time anyway

[Baddie]

You find it comfy because you only look at it, not use it. Baddie prefers them too....




Oh c'mon, you walked into that one!!!!

Yes I like the superbike tail.

[senator8]

The seat units and any fiberglass mounted against the frame or subframe needs to be mounted solidly or it will wear on the mounts. Mine still look like the day they were fitted.
In the beginning, I never wanted to go to a full race tail and seat pad. But was told I would never get the same feedback through the stock seat from those knowing better than me. Now I don't like riding with a stock one. Although they are not all the same. Many of the race seat and fairing companies make replacement race seats that fit up like the stock ones and comply with the SS & PS rules, but are either fibreglass or very hard foam material.

If you're ass is getting sore after 5 laps you might have to ask your boyfriends to be a bit rougher to help condition it. Or you could spend on better quality or thicker seat foam.

[Mr.Ed]

If you're ass is getting sore after 5 laps you might have to ask your boyfriends to be a bit rougher to help condition it.

[Little Mick]

The seat units and any fiberglass mounted against the frame or subframe needs to be mounted solidly or it will wear on the mounts. Mine still look like the day they were fitted.
In the beginning, I never wanted to go to a full race tail and seat pad. But was told I would never get the same feedback through the stock seat from those knowing better than me. Now I don't like riding with a stock one. Although they are not all the same. Many of the race seat and fairing companies make replacement race seats that fit up like the stock ones and comply with the SS & PS rules, but are either fibreglass or very hard foam material.

If you're ass is getting sore after 5 laps you might have to ask your boyfriends to be a bit rougher to help condition it. Or you could spend on better quality or thicker seat foam.

I'm with Rick.. A wiser faster more elite rider than I gave me the same advice... the soft road seat doesn't give me as much feedback... although you need to mount the sbk seat properly so it doesn't flex around and give you the wobbles... My early R6 was a bugger for it but I solidified it for the last outing and it felt great..

each to their own though... whatever is going to give you feel and confidence...

[chubb]

Saw that the likes of Kev and Rick liking the stock seat on their factory R6.

I like my comfy stock seat!

[DisPlaCeD]

The way I see it, is that it's a race/track bike... Doesn't need to be comfortable as your arse isn't in one place for too long anyway. You're not going for a Sunday ride. That's why I like the "superbike" style and no desire to try the other version.

[Marty]

It's not entirely about comfort but I won't knock it back if it's a byproduct of going back to the road tail. I'm pretty sure I've got a fractured tail bone from dirt bikes so I'm not going to complain about the extra comfort.

I've had my SBK tail on since 2011, it's held up ok but it's proven to be shit in terms of mounting, if I replace it with the same thing it'll go the same way for sure. it's been wearing away at my new suit aswell.

But the biggest thing is the lower seating position, I noticed a lot of people building up their seats to sit up higher (ie back where the stock seat would be). I could be wrong but I suspect it would feel better sitting up higher.

With the wheel spin argument I can see how it could help but I've always had a decent feel for it, you can hear the subtle change in revs long before you feel anything. There's a good chance that I'm not at the level where it's an issue but there's plenty of A graders who run the road tail which makes me wonder if it'll ever be an issue.

I'm definitely going to try the road tail, my existing one is fucked and needs to be replaced. Where would we be without trial and error?

I'll let you all know how it turns out for better or worse

[Mr.Ed]

IMHO, by the time you hear the rpm spiking, it's almost too late...

[Nelso]

Haha, love hearing all you 600 riders talking about feeling wheelspin. On a 1000, by the time you feel anything, the arse end is beside you.

[Saturnalian]

If you're ass is getting sore after 5 laps you might have to ask your boyfriends to be a bit rougher to help condition it.

Damn straight Rick. This wizard from the North.... He speaks the truth ladies and gentleman

[Marty]

IMHO, by the time you hear the rpm spiking, it's almost too late...

I didn't say spike, I'm talking about 100-200rpm. I'll hear that before I feel anything regardless of any seat.

[Mr.Ed]

You're a much better listener than I am then... women must love you!

[chubb]

should be able to feel the wheel spin surely?

[Marshy]

should be able to feel the wheel spin surely?

Not 'normal' spin, no. Often you can be out doing laps, feeling normal, and someone following you around tells you afterwards that you were leaving big black lines out of every turn. Don't feel a thing. Biiiiig slides, yeah of course you feel, but run-of-the-mill wheel spin goes unnoticed.

[Marty]

You're a much better listener than I am then... women must love you!

Lol! Well I can't claim any lap records but I can claim that I've never crashed a road bike full stop. Paying close attention to the hand to rear wheel connection is what has worked for me.

Laying a black line does not always mean your sliding. You can't feel it because it's probably not sliding. I've had people tell me the same thing and I know the bikes not sliding. Easy way to prove it is do a big static burnout on the bike or car, Pull the clutch in, let the wheel stop then ride away gently. You'll leave a black line for meters.

[Marshy]

I'm happy to stand corrected on this. But what about those new-fangled bikes with traction control that flash the TC light in many turns, when it doesn't look or feel like the bike is spinning? I'm thinking that there's a level of slip that is essentially undetectable to the rider, but is occurring anyway.

In your example, where does the rubber come from to lay down out of a curve if not for wheelspin? If it takes a burnout (ie wheelspin) to generate the rubber to then lay down, then it must also be happening in a turn, right? And it can't be from just friction by way of angular forces on the tyre in a turn, because the front tyre never leaves black lines - which it would if it was friction-based wear.

I'm enjoying the intellectual discussion!

[Medic!]

I'm enjoying the intellectual discussion!

Ahh well I'd best stay out of it then.

[Marty]

I'm happy to stand corrected on this. But what about those new-fangled bikes with traction control that flash the TC light in many turns, when it doesn't look or feel like the bike is spinning? I'm thinking that there's a level of slip that is essentially undetectable to the rider, but is occurring anyway.

In your example, where does the rubber come from to lay down out of a curve if not for wheelspin? If it takes a burnout (ie wheelspin) to generate the rubber to then lay down, then it must also be happening in a turn, right? And it can't be from just friction by way of angular forces on the tyre in a turn, because the front tyre never leaves black lines - which it would if it was friction-based wear.

I'm enjoying the intellectual discussion!

We are talking about 3 different things though.

1. Leaving a black line - this is almost a standalone thing and is basically a heat issue. If you heat up a piece of chocolate in your hand you can drag it along the ground and it'll paint a line, same with a race tyre, if u get the surface temp so hot (like last weekend with 80 degree track temp),the tyre will get to a point where it's basically melting enough to paint a line.

2. Wheel spin - the back wheel is traveling faster than the front wheel. At track speeds they reckon there's always wheel spin even on the straights (even though it's not leaving a line). A certain amount isn't even noticeable. I remember reading that for dirt bikes you want 4% wheelspin all the time ideally. You can have wheel spin without a slide or a line being left. The fancy consumer grade TC isn't actually very fancy at all. It doesn't know what a slide is, they only detect wheel spin. The better factory systems compare front and rear wheel speeds but the really crude ones like bazzaz are "rate of change" where they just detect a spike in RPM, how sharp that spike is is the tunable part. These systems are getting better all the time. In motogp they run gyroscopes and even track the position on track to tune it per corner (GPS TC is banned).

3. Sliding - when the rear wheel is out of line with the front wheel. When there's enough wheel spin and lateral force to make it step out. You know when your sliding superbike tail or non superbike tail.

PS; I'm no slide king, I'm alright at it on dirt, I can fishtail my R1 up the road but nowhere near being able to deliberately initiate a slide on a road race bike, but believe me it's a goal of mine.

[chubb]

Bazzaz is more slip control than a true traction control


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[Baddie]

Bazzaz is more slip control than a true traction control


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Talking of traction control ill be installing this later...and with Aussie support.

http://www.gripone.com/en/gripone_pro.htm

[Stu23]

I ripped the std seat apart, and put race foam over the top of it. This way I can swap between a std seat ( still have one spare ) and my race seat . I will be trying Carl out with this on his next trackday to see which he prefers, 1 minute to swap them over Personally I prefer the cut down race seat, but each to there own

[Phat3R]

If you're ass is getting sore after 5 laps you might have to ask your boyfriends to be a bit rougher to help condition it. Or you could spend on better quality or thicker seat foam.

It's always better to give than to receive ...

So what's the best seat foam in the land, and where to acquire ???

[Stu23]

Clarke Rubber is where I got mine

[Marshy]

I ripped the std seat apart, and put race foam over the top of it. This way I can swap between a std seat ( still have one spare ) and my race seat . I will be trying Carl out with this on his next trackday to see which he prefers, 1 minute to swap them over Personally I prefer the cut down race seat, but each to there own

I've got so many R6 seats that this is actually a great idea! Stu, you need to do a how-to...

[Marty]

That's a good idea stu, a harder seat on the stock base might be better. I honestly can't remember how the stock seat felt it's been so long, I just remember it worked and didn't ruin my fairings and leathers

[Stu23]

It does give you options

[phillmac]

I liked the race seat for the extra grip, not sliding around on the std seat. Could feel it spinning up with both seats. Old R1 seat base just needed 2 layers of mat and resin on top. Felt better being lower for me.