St George MCC

[chubb]

They are finally seeing some sense.

"All machines will have their radiator fluid physically tested. Machines must be presented to scrutineering with their radiator cap OFF for fluid testing or they will immediately be sent to the back of the queue.
Water is the ONLY acceptable fluid. If any bike is found to be non-compliant at scrutineering they will be given once chance to become compliant. Following this, at ANY stage of the meeting, if a bike is found to be non-compliant then the rider will immediately be disqualified from the meeting without a refund. There are absolutely no exceptions."

25
D–GRADE RIDERS
25.1All D- grade riders, without exception, are required to wear a vest over their leathers as supplied by the Race Secretary. The vest supplied will be signed out with the allocation of the transponder and must be returned with the transponder at the conclusion of the event.
25.2 Should a D - grade rider enter the track at any time without the supplied vest being worn then they will immediately be disqualified from the meeting without a refund. This includes ALL track activity; practice, qualifying and racing.
25.3 See point 16.4 for additional requirement regarding the D - grade Rider Briefing.

10.2.6 Each competitor must supply at least ONE Race Official / Flag Marshal / Recovery Marshal or Office Assistant for one FULL day at any one of the rounds to be eligible for the Series Prizes.
These must not be existing members of the St George MCC Management Committee.


Good to see that they are trying to make things safer for riders around after the November fiasco.... Still always short on flaggies etc... should just pay them..

[Phat3R]

Was there a problem with radiator fluid spills at last meet?

D graders & vests sounds like very sensible, certainly a good reason to want to get the fark out of D grade. But will it make it easier to spot parked bikes further up the grid when the lights go out?

Yes pay the damn flaggies, the SMSP contract requires them to pay tens of thousands for the hundreds of security staff.

[Lets Torque]

Was there a problem with radiator fluid spills at last meet?

D graders & vests sounds like very sensible, certainly a good reason to want to get the fark out of D grade. But will it make it easier to spot parked bikes further up the grid when the lights go out?

Yes pay the damn flaggies, the SMSP contract requires them to pay tens of thousands for the hundreds of security staff.

To answer your question Rick there was a problem with ppl running coolant all weekend - if it keeps happening eventually it will run the same way as the American system where everyone rocks up with a dry radiator and it is filled by a marshall - in the result of a accident ,if it is then found to have been tampered with your banned for that year.

I'm all for a revision of the rules but I'm not sure a bright vest would have helped me or anybody involved with my incident...
50 bikes is too many for such a short course and the grid spacing, I think, is too close.
What if rookies started from the back of the grid for a period of time??

I was right on the start line when this incident happened and was one of the first on the scene of your accident Sicko You are correct in saying that a vest wouldnt of helped in your case, it was a pure race incident. As the pack parted to go around you, unfortunately the back markers couldnt see you - im real glad you were all ok mate - this incident rattled me to say the least.

[Marshy]

To answer your question Rick there was a problem with ppl running coolant all weekend

I'm going to suggest that the 'problem' is people like Gaz - and all of us!! - that have drained the system, flushed it, and filled it up with water, but the tint remains due to the very small amount of residual coolant hidden in the system. To my mind, this is NOT "running coolant", but yet this is what Gaz and others are being accused of, and is why we are now in this situation.

So, without dismantling the engine and the whole cooling system, how much of a trace is acceptable? If the answer is 'none', how many flushes does it take to remove all traces? What if it's essentially impossible?

How is the water deemed to be pure water? What is the test procedure? Just eyeballed? Specific gravity test? Send it away to a lab?? I'd hate to see people consistently being sent away to re-drain and re-fill their radiators because the difference between a microscopic trace and full coolant is subjectively determined by an old dude with bad eyesight in a dark garage at 7am during scrutineering.

Also, I know that technically coolant is slippery when dumped on a racetrack, but how many people have EVER seen that happen?? Cars, yes, because the radiator at the front is the first thing to get damaged. But bikes?? I've never seen it, ever.

Sooooo, are we overreacting just a bit here? Why not concentrate on ensuring OIL is as contained as possible. That's the thing that everyone crashes on, and causes major delays while cleaning it up.

Thoughts?

[Lets Torque]

I'm going to suggest that the 'problem' is people like Gaz - and all of us!! - that have drained the system, flushed it, and filled it up with water, but the tint remains due to the very small amount of residual coolant hidden in the system. To my mind, this is NOT "running coolant", but yet this is what Gaz and others are being accused of, and is why we are now in this situation.

So, without dismantling the engine and the whole cooling system, how much of a trace is acceptable? If the answer is 'none', how many flushes does it take to remove all traces? What if it's essentially impossible?

How is the water deemed to be pure water? What is the test procedure? Just eyeballed? Specific gravity test? Send it away to a lab?? I'd hate to see people consistently being sent away to re-drain and re-fill their radiators because the difference between a microscopic trace and full coolant is subjectively determined by an old dude with bad eyesight in a dark garage at 7am during scrutineering.

Also, I know that technically coolant is slippery when dumped on a racetrack, but how many people have EVER seen that happen?? Cars, yes, because the radiator at the front is the first thing to get damaged. But bikes?? I've never seen it, ever.

Sooooo, are we overreacting just a bit here? Why not concentrate on ensuring OIL is as contained as possible. That's the thing that everyone crashes on, and causes major delays while cleaning it up.

Thoughts?

Of the bikes i cleaned up at various race meets coolant was apparent and not only this race incident, and i have bad eye sight and it was as plain as day, not just a little green FLOURECENT... Im not pointing any fingers just merely a observation from my experience running recovery...

if these things keep happening unfortunately this is the direction the organisers will have to take to stop ppl doing the wrong thing or pleading ignorance!

But yes it is a small part of the puzzle, at the end of the day more track time and fewer acco's is the name of the game.

[Turbo]

But yes it is a small part of the puzzle, at the end of the day more track time and fewer acco's is the name of the game.

Well in favour of this... Happy to play a part in cutting down on the acco's, even if it is by wearing a vest!
Keen to hear of any other recurring issues and what could be done about them...

[Lets Torque]

ps dropped those $$$ int your account tonight Marshy will text you my address - might try and pick them up tomorrow as im at the track on Thurs - wats your movements?

[Marshy]

ps dropped those $$$ int your account tonight Marshy will text you my address - might try and pick them up tomorrow as im at the track on Thurs - wats your movements?

Around tomorrow mate, if you wanna swing by. Just call first.

[Turbo]

Real glad you were all ok mate - this incident rattled me to say the least.

Really appreciate your having helped out mate. Made all the difference to me getting medical help as quickly as I did.
Happy to say I'm recovering well tho, sorry for the rattle!

[Lets Torque]

Really appreciate your having helped out mate. Made all the difference to me getting medical help as quickly as I did.
Happy to say I'm recovering well tho, sorry for the rattle!

no sweat pal - glad your all good my friend

[Turbo]

They are finally seeing some sense.
D–GRADE RIDERS
25.1All D- grade riders, without exception, are required to wear a vest over their leathers as supplied by the Race Secretary. The vest supplied will be signed out with the allocation of the transponder and must be returned with the transponder at the conclusion of the event.
25.2 Should a D - grade rider enter the track at any time without the supplied vest being worn then they will immediately be disqualified from the meeting without a refund. This includes ALL track activity; practice, qualifying and racing.
25.3 See point 16.4 for additional requirement regarding the D - grade Rider Briefing


Good to see that they are trying to make things safer for riders around after the November fiasco.... Still always short on flaggies etc... should just pay them..

I'm all for a revision of the rules but I'm not sure a bright vest would have helped me or anybody involved with my incident...
50 bikes is too many for such a short course and the grid spacing, I think, is too close.
What if rookies started from the back of the grid for a period of time??

[Mr.Ed]

I don't think a grid of 20 bikes would have helped you much, mate... it's not like the guy that hit you wasn't 4 rows back.

Also, I do like the idea of the vest too. Yes, it means that if I ever race again (this one is for you wetty) I'll have to wear it but it's only fair and I reckon it will not only make it safer but also weed out some of the trophy chasers.

And seriously, the entry fee is like what these days? 500?? Add another $10 per rider and get rid of the stupid "you must supply a flaggie" idea... it's not like they can't claim those expenses on tax either.

[Turbo]

I don't think a grid of 20 bikes would have helped you much, mate... it's not like the guy that hit you wasn't 4 rows back.

Not sure I agree with you there. Yes he was further back, but had riders in front had more space and time to react, his view of me wouldn't have been obscured.
Also, if the grid was more spaced out, qualifying well would make a big difference to the race start.

Totally agree about paying flaggies tho. No big deal to charge it on to the riders. We all really appreciate what they do.

[Nelso]

Not sure I agree with you there. Yes he was further back, but had riders in front had more space and time to react, his view of me wouldn't have been obscured.
Also, if the grid was more spaced out, qualifying well would make a big difference to the race start.

Totally agree about paying flaggies tho. No bid deal to charge it on to the riders. We all really appreciate what they do.

He was next to me on row 7.

[WETTY]

He was next to me on row 7.

were you upstairs in the cafe instead of qualifying ?

[Nelso]

were you upstairs in the cafe instead of qualifying ?

I was on the Premodern GSXR750 that still needs a bit of tweaking. It was VERY interesting being that far back on the grid! and by interesting, I mean scary as fuck!

[Marshy]

Not sure I agree with you there. Yes he was further back, but had riders in front had more space and time to react, his view of me wouldn't have been obscured.
Also, if the grid was more spaced out, qualifying well would make a big difference to the race start.

Totally agree about paying flaggies tho. No bid deal to charge it on to the riders. We all really appreciate what they do.

Couldn't agree more! I reckon the grid should be capped at 40. 3 bikes to a row, and each row about three times further apart than currently. Looking down on the grid, the actual physical distance between 1st and 50th is, like, 20 metres, with 50 bikes in between. It's MASSIVELY too consolidated into too-small a space. Look at motoGP (and I know their spacing is more about making the grid look artificially fuller) but the spacing is very considerable, which is great for safety.

[WETTY]

Couldn't agree more! I reckon the grid should be capped at 40. 3 bikes to a row, and each row about three times further apart than currently. Looking down on the grid, the actual physical distance between 1st and 50th is, like, 20 metres, with 50 bikes in between. It's MASSIVELY too consolidated into too-small a space. Look at motoGP (and I know their spacing is more about making the grid look artificially fuller) but the spacing is very considerable, which is great for safety.

fark imagine starting from the rear if 1 had a problem the race earlier .

i have come to grid up at the BSFOS , usually always last coming off T12 (so my girl sits on the grid as little as possible) and i have had to pull up at grid spot 38/42 or whatever which is a car spot to get the newbies to roll down the hill into the bike grids , the car grids finish up near the flaggie , i had a chuckle , and no it wasnt Rick .

maybe if when we launch we look ahead till T1 and shift by feel not looking at the Tacho for the 1st 3 gear changes people. i see it all the time and i would be my fibro thats what happened

[Nelso]

maybe if when we launch we look ahead till T1 and shift by feel not looking at the Tacho for the 1st 3 gear changes people. i see it all the time and i would be my fibro thats what happened

This!

What I witness back in the field were people riding with blinkers on all race with no awareness of what was going on around or ahead of them.

[dan]

Couldn't agree more! I reckon the grid should be capped at 40. 3 bikes to a row, and each row about three times further apart than currently. Looking down on the grid, the actual physical distance between 1st and 50th is, like, 20 metres, with 50 bikes in between. It's MASSIVELY too consolidated into too-small a space. Look at motoGP (and I know their spacing is more about making the grid look artificially fuller) but the spacing is very considerable, which is great for safety.

Devils advocate here but why 40? Bigger spacing might help with start line incidents but I don't know capping grids is the answer. Big grids make the first lap pretty... interesting but after that things break into groups and everyone has their little battles. Does 50 really make a difference to 40?

How do you work it out? First in? Qualifying? Preference to StG members?

[Mr.Ed]

Devils advocate here but why 40? Bigger spacing might help with start line incidents but I don't know capping grids is the answer. Big grids make the first lap pretty... interesting but after that things break into groups and everyone has their little battles. Does 50 really make a difference to 40?

How do you work it out? First in? Qualifying? Preference to StG members?

I've started from the back of grid and from the middle (sadly never close to the front other than RYM) and to me 10 less or 10 more wouldn't make that much of difference tbh... the spacing yes. That can actually change things as it would make it harder for ppl from other rows to catch up and overtake during the start. But it would also allow riders from further back to gather even more momentum before getting to T1 in comparison the riders who started at the front... so there's that.

[senator8]

Personally I think it's a disappointing reflection on the entrants that all bikes must be tested. A typical scenario of all being punished for a few.
Both of my bikes means complete fairing removal.

[chubb]

Almost becoming as expensive as a FX round.

And Rick I think it's complete top and bottom removal for most bikes.

[Linden]

Run air cooled ... problem solved ...

[Marshy]

I think there should be a RST (random scrutineering testing) queue, like RBT by the cops. Two rows of normal scrut, and one where bikes in the queue get pulled aside and everything gets properly checked. And throughout the weekend, random inspections in the garages to ensure ongoing compliance. My view is that coolant isn't a particular problem, but that ensuring oil is kept in the engine (or, failing that, in the bellypan) is vastly more important but never properly checked. There are unfortunately too many crashes on people's oil, which should almost never happen. Whereas I can't ever recall coolant causing any issues to anyone.

I also think there's simply no way that people (volunteers!) can realistically check 200+ bikes, and all the gear, in an hour, whilst actually doing a proper job. Either start earlier, finish later, or - my strong recommendation - do most of it on Friday arvo!!

[WETTY]

I think there should be a RST (random scrutineering testing) queue, like RBT by the cops. Two rows of normal scrut, and one where bikes in the queue get pulled aside and everything gets properly checked. And throughout the weekend, random inspections in the garages to ensure ongoing compliance. My view is that coolant isn't a particular problem, but that ensuring oil is kept in the engine (or, failing that, in the bellypan) is vastly more important but never properly checked. There are unfortunately too many crashes on people's oil, which should almost never happen. Whereas I can't ever recall coolant causing any issues to anyone.

I also think there's simply no way that people (volunteers!) can realistically check 200+ bikes, and all the gear, in an hour, whilst actually doing a proper job. Either start earlier, finish later, or - my strong recommendation - do most of it on Friday arvo!!

Holy shit , its only taken how many years but most of that i harped on yrs ago and ever since

[Marshy]

Holy shit , its only taken how many years but most of that i harped on yrs ago and ever since

Me too. But nobody's listening!

[WETTY]

Finally the flaggie rule is correct, having Jan or anybody else in the tower down as your supplied flaggie was a farkin farce, in 2011 i supplied 2 flaggies at every round bar the 4 hr or 5 or whatever it was , but then you did get 10 points per flaggie , Thats how it should go back to ,!!!!!!! sorry Ed if you have no friends

[Mr.Ed]

! sorry Ed if you have no friends

I must have supplied 10+ flaggies over the years... I even flagged in 2 complete weekends. But IMHO, unless you really like bikes, it's not exactly an enjoyable experience. Well, I like bikes and didn't find it exactly exciting after the first day... I can only imagine what someone who has no idea of what is going on thinks.

Plus, didn't someone say "racing is expensive and if you have no money bla bla bla bla"??

[Marshy]

I must have supplied 10+ flaggies over the years... I even flagged in 2 complete weekends. But IMHO, unless you really like bikes, it's not exactly an enjoyable experience. Well, I like bikes and didn't find it exactly exciting after the first day... I can only imagine what someone who has no idea of what is going on thinks.

Plus, didn't someone say "racing is expensive and if you have no money bla bla bla bla"??

Agree Ed. I love bikes, but I still don't want to sit at a flag point for 2 days in the sun/rain/heat/cold etc. I totally love that people do, as it allows us all to go racing, but I still strongly think we should pay them for doing it! $100 cash, or $150 cash, whatever, for a day. It's not much of an hourly rate, but at least it's recognition of their effort. It would add $5 or $10 to each rider's entry fee... ie ONE OR TWO PERCENT!!! It's a no-brainer.

[Leezx10r]

I think it all sounds good to me.
Coolant
Vest
Flags

With the vests will make it easier to workout who to chase & how good / bad am doing lol


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[WETTY]

If they can pay the flaggies at the gokart meetings they can pay them at the bikes

[Metal-Man]

D graders should only be racing against D graders ... thats why they have levels at SMP ride days etc.
Or, split D & C graders into their own races .. along with A & B graders ... either way something has to change for the better of al involved.

[WETTY]

D graders should only be racing against D graders ... thats why they have levels at SMP ride days etc.
Or, split D & C graders into their own races .. along with A & B graders ... either way something has to change for the better of al involved.

think you need to to do the sums on how many A/B grade riders are in the race , There isnt enuf to financially make it economically viable in this economic climate

[dan]

think you need to to do the sums on how many A/B grade riders are in the race , There isnt enuf to financially make it economically viable in this economic climate

Exactly. C and D are the people filling the grids. Maybe more penalties for unsporting / dangerous riding will get people to smarten up. That's the real issue, right?

[Linden]

D graders should only be racing against D graders ... thats why they have levels at SMP ride days etc.
Or, split D & C graders into their own races .. along with A & B graders ... either way something has to change for the better of al involved.

Beau Beatson won (or podium) his first ever race .. against A/B/C graders

I'm C but slower than most D (E) graders

[chubb]

And what... Have even longer delays if all the D graders are numpties?

[Mr.Ed]

D graders should only be racing against D graders ... thats why they have levels at SMP ride days etc.
Or, split D & C graders into their own races .. along with A & B graders ... either way something has to change for the better of al involved.

Cant say I agree with that either... 1st of all 'cause of how ppl are graded (can of worms so let's stay out of it for now) also because as a D grader the thing you need the most is a faster rider to chase. And that rider sometimes is a C grader, sometimes is a B grader (if you're a fast D grader) and etc.

The only negative side I can think of re the whole D grade rule is the odd muppet A/B/C riders who has a chip on his/her shoulder and act up when overtaken by a rider wearing the vest. But then again, said muppet rider would probably take offense on anyone overtaking him/her anyway...

[Carl-52]

ill be wearing a vest for next year... will be great for practice and qualifying so the faster guys have the ability to see newbies even earlier and seeing who i have to beat in the D grade race. Apart from that it wont really make a difference. Maybe 3 to a row on the start would help, but capping bikes on track wont do anything.

[Linden]

ill be wearing a vest for next year... will be great for practice and qualifying so the faster guys have the ability to see newbies even earlier and seeing who i have to beat in the D grade race. Apart from that it wont really make a difference. Maybe 3 to a row on the start would help, but capping bikes on track wont do anything.

You'll be getting a letter in a couple of weeks I'd be guessing

[Mr.Ed]

You just want it for the fluoro... hahaha

[Kimbo]

Vests are a waste of time, and in some situations can be dangerous. I flagged on the saturday in the heat. I got an esky with food and drink, so I was happy. Panigales have a problem as you cant see their sump plug with the exhaust on. In Victoria , you sign a stat dec. Also if the rules say no coolant, you dont have any trace of coolant. That crash on the line showed two had coolant , and last years big BEARS crash showed coolant being used as well. Hey Linden , how about removing that last line.

[dan]

Re: vests. Is that so the flaggies know who is D grade or the other [higher grade] riders? If you are behind a dude in the vest maybe you should be wearing one too...

I'd be worried about the vest getting caught on the bike if someone went down. Has that been discussed?

I don't have any problem per se with D graders being able to be spotted but I remain unclear on what this solves?

[chubb]

To hopefully get A/B/C graders to give them a little more room while overtaking etc during qually so it's not a mess?

Qually is always a mess with STG. People dawdling around on the track sometimes and 8mins gives you 3 flying laps if you're quick.

[dan]

To hopefully get A/B/C graders to give them a little more room while overtaking etc during qually so it's not a mess?

Qually is always a mess with STG. People dawdling around on the track sometimes and 8mins gives you 3 flying laps if you're quick.

Practically, does that really make any difference? You can tell by how quickly you are coming down on someone whether you need to make a little more allowance than usual.

[Mr.Ed]

Practically, does that really make any difference? You can tell by how quickly you are coming down on someone whether you need to make a little more allowance than usual.

Yes, what you don't know is the likelihood of that 'someone' changing lines or braking early. We have to keep in mind that a lot of D graders are ppl racing for the first time... and a lot of first timers haven't even done a track day in the red group before they race!!

[dan]

Yes, what you don't know is the likelihood of that 'someone' changing lines or braking early. We have to keep in mind that a lot of D graders are ppl racing for the first time... and a lot of first timers haven't even done a track day in the red group before they race!!

And if everyone went out one at a time in qualifying there wouldn't be a problem at all!

If you are catching someone quick assume they aren't as fast, make whatever assumptions you need to make and adjust your decisions accordingly. You should be doing this already don't see what difference a vest makes.

[Mr.Ed]

And if everyone went out one at a time in qualifying there wouldn't be a problem at all!

If you are catching someone quick assume they aren't as fast, make whatever assumptions you need to make and adjust your decisions accordingly. You should be doing this already don't see what difference a vest makes.

It's not meant to be a game changer... it's just something to both help riders identify a potential risk (i.e. newbie rider braking too early/hard/at all into T1) and to somewhat protect new riders against their own mistakes. It's the same as a P plate. Of course it doesn't change anything by just having it there but when I see one trying to zoom in between traffic I keep my distance.

[Nelso]

And if everyone went out one at a time in qualifying there wouldn't be a problem at all!

If you are catching someone quick assume they aren't as fast, make whatever assumptions you need to make and adjust your decisions accordingly. You should be doing this already don't see what difference a vest makes.

There will always be a problem in qualifying due to the vast differences in speeds. At least the vest will identify the person from a distance so you can plan your move to get past them cleanly. There are a lot of slower riders that have plenty of experience that hold their lines, don't brake mid corner etc. so don't really get in your way, it's the unpredictable ones that make it dangerous.

I think the vests for D graders are a great idea. One, it will help others to identify the less experienced riders and two, it will stop the trophy hunters from wanting to stay in D grade so they can be the fast fish in the slow pond.

I say well done to St George for being proactive and attempting to address any issues that have been raised by riders and for trying to make things safer. I'm not a big fan of adding extra rules and I would much rather riders be more responsible and accountable for their actions, but I think what they have put in place is fair and appropriate considering so many riders are being irresponsible.

[dan]

Stat dec for no coolant is a great idea btw. Ban the rider for a year if they are found to have coolant. Everyone knows that rule there are no excuses.