NSW Modern & Historic Road Race Championships 11-12 July

[Mstevo]

Want more racing?
The NSW Modern & Historic Road Race Championships are back
11th and 12th July at SMSP
Plus Wetty can have a go in the Trials Championships too

http://www.stgeorgemcc.com/pdfs/news...ace%20regs.pdf

[Mstevo]

well having read through it, I'm disappointed, 15 race laps over 2 days...and no chance to cross enter for more laps :-(

A quick adding up of expences, travel(ex Canberra), accommodation, food, tires and entry costs, it's going to cost me $88 per lap :-( , have fun you Sydney siders :-)

[KANGA]

St georges upload of the supp regs seem to have compressed quite a bit for some reason.
Better quality version from MNSW
http://www.motorcycling.com.au/Porta...l_14.05.15.pdf

I'm planning on entering this to bust my racing cherry. Bit disappointed by the amount of racing. Seems like they are trying to fit a lot of different class's in to the one day.

Just wondering if anyone can confirm something for me.
This is the whats listed for tyres for supersport in the moms. Given that everything seems to be stuck out except for the homoglated stuff, does that mean I'm good to run slicks?
tyres.png

[Marshy]

This is a repeat of the disaster schedule from last time. They haven't learned....

I have a suggestion. Will post up soon.

[KANGA]

Price drop, might do it now.

Hi All,

MNSW, together with the supporting clubs, St George MCC, PCRA and HRR are pleased

to advise that the entry fees for the 2015 NSW Historic & Modern RR Championships

have been reduced as follows:

Solo entry fee $200.00

Sidecar entry fee $213.20

Additional machine and /or cross entry additional $50.00 per machine

Share garage $35.00 per solo $70 per sidecar

[Mstevo]

god i hate how unorganise they appear to be, I'll be doing a WP day $170 for 80-90 laps and save my money for the following weekends FXRRC round($250 for 4 x 6lap races + a 7 lap feature race) and the St George MCC 4hr 2 weekends later.

[Marshy]

Yeah, it's just a rubbish schedule. They really, really shouldn't try and run a two-day race meet with both modern and historics. There's waaaay too many classes, and not enough track time for anyone. I'd always thought that they should run moderns on Saturday and historics on Sunday (assuming just a two-day weekend is available for the race meet). Have fewer classes, and more races per class, and compress those races into one day. Heaps and heaps more track time (for the same price), and no lengthy sitting around periods. Historics can deal with their oil spills on their own on the Sunday, after the moderns have gone home and are kicking back with their families and a cold beer, instead of eating into modern's race time with cleanup delays.

My $0.02

I even did a draft proposal a while back, including a schedule.

•Modern motorcycle classes:
–1000cc
–600cc
–Ultra-lights (400cc, 650cc twins, 250cc 4-stroke)
–Sidecars
Total: 4 classes


•Historic motorcycle classes:
–Periods 1 to 6 (some combined grids, based on entries)
–Pre-modern and F1
Total: 5-6 classes


•Event schedule:
–Modern:
•1 qualifying and 5 races per class
•3 sprint races (5 laps) and 2 enduro races (10 laps)
–Historic:
•1 qualifying and 4 races per class (Historic)
•3 sprint races (5 laps) and 1 enduro race (8 laps)

[Mstevo]

I like that sprint and TT style racing, that's why I'm so tempted to do a full year in Victoria next year in Pre Modern as that's their format

[dadat178]

As of today there were only @ 20 entries, won't run without 120 minimum. Hence the price drop. Possibly going to get the Friday as well, as scheduled event has apparently cancelled. Per Jan this arvo at PCRA. Word was unless this goes ahead, won't be another state championship in our lifetimes.

[Little Mick]

Yeah, it's just a rubbish schedule. They really, really shouldn't try and run a two-day race meet with both modern and historics. There's waaaay too many classes, and not enough track time for anyone. I'd always thought that they should run moderns on Saturday and historics on Sunday (assuming just a two-day weekend is available for the race meet). Have fewer classes, and more races per class, and compress those races into one day. Heaps and heaps more track time (for the same price), and no lengthy sitting around periods. Historics can deal with their oil spills on their own on the Sunday, after the moderns have gone home and are kicking back with their families and a cold beer, instead of eating into modern's race time with cleanup delays.

My $0.02

I even did a draft proposal a while back, including a schedule.

•Modern motorcycle classes:
–1000cc
–600cc
–Ultra-lights (400cc, 650cc twins, 250cc 4-stroke)
–Sidecars
Total: 4 classes


•Historic motorcycle classes:
–Periods 1 to 6 (some combined grids, based on entries)
–Pre-modern and F1
Total: 5-6 classes


•Event schedule:
–Modern:
•1 qualifying and 5 races per class
•3 sprint races (5 laps) and 2 enduro races (10 laps)
–Historic:
•1 qualifying and 4 races per class (Historic)
•3 sprint races (5 laps) and 1 enduro race (8 laps)

lWord was unless this goes ahead, won't be another state championship in our lifetimes.

Obviously the formula is wrong but they wait until it's too late to change it... then a guilt trip to go with it. Is it really a state championship? How is it different to any other meet? So if this is a state title and it isn't run again due to lack of interest at current prices and format then if the price and format doesn't change nothing changes. ...

[Mstevo]

Obviously the formula is wrong but they wait until it's too late to change it... then a guilt trip to go with it. Is it really a state championship? How is it different to any other meet? So if this is a stare title and it isn't run again due to lack of interest at current prices and format then if the price and format doesn't change nothing changes. ...

sums it up from my perspective too.

[Marshy]

sums it up from my perspective too.

+3

[Nelso]

It's two days at the track for $235, or $285 if you cross enter. Regardless of how you feel about the format, organisation etc. it's still cheap racing!!! and if we don't go to bail them out, It will cost all of us that do any club racing in the future, because someone is going to have to pay for it and it will most likely be St George and PCRA that take the hit. If you think club racing is getting expensive now, I hate to see what it will end up like if they have to carry this debt. I wasn't going to do it and I really can't afford to do an extra meet right now, but I'm now going to enter. I'd rather support this and bail them out of a poor decision than put more money in the selfish promoter's pockets and at the end of the day, I'm getting another couple of days racing and hanging out with my mates at the track.

[Nelso]

Yeah, it's just a rubbish schedule. They really, really shouldn't try and run a two-day race meet with both modern and historics. There's waaaay too many classes, and not enough track time for anyone. I'd always thought that they should run moderns on Saturday and historics on Sunday (assuming just a two-day weekend is available for the race meet). Have fewer classes, and more races per class, and compress those races into one day. Heaps and heaps more track time (for the same price), and no lengthy sitting around periods. Historics can deal with their oil spills on their own on the Sunday, after the moderns have gone home and are kicking back with their families and a cold beer, instead of eating into modern's race time with cleanup delays.

They were apparently trying to build the profile so that they could run separate modern and historic state titles in the future. Obviously, they didn't think it through enough, or learn from two years ago.

[Marshy]

Agreed Nelso. And don't get me wrong, I'd be entering too, just to support the idea, the clubs, and racing that isn't run by a private promoter, if it wasn't for my broken leg. I just wish someone would think to change what didn't work last time. Hey, isn't that the definition of madness... repeating the same action and expecting a different outcome?

[Little Mick]

agree, its now $235 for 2 days... which will be about as much track time as half a track day... with the added bonus of racing (obviously much more enjoyable).... the reality tho is that the early bird was $345 plus $45 per machine to have a garage spot... (not factoring cross entering at $60). (In reality, a typical 1 day meet has more track time, and hence Marshy's model works sweet as it manages interruptions as well)

So I support all those who can make it and bail the promoter (MNSW) out. I sincerely hope it goes well and those that can and want to, partake, and everyone has a great time. Unfortunately, I have made alternate arrangements for my racing budget this year....


The questions remain... Has a lesson been learnt? Will they need bailing out next time or will it change? Who get's to bail them out next year and the year after?

I wonder if MNSW see it that the punters are bailing them out or that we are an unreasonable bunch and should just get on with it if we want to go racing?

Ps, I'm sure something similar happened when they introduced this in 2013 and we were told there would never be another state championship in nsw as it wasn't supported well enough. it could be a bad memory on my part tho...

[Lets Torque]

Would have but im going beer drinking OS...

[Mstevo]

It's two days at the track for $235,

but only 15 race laps!!! and I can't cross enter, and the other major major problem is getting through all legs, PCRA is notorious for not completing a full days racing, as happened last weekend

It's not the total costs, it's the value for money and race time.
at Broadford at the St George meet the other weekend, qualifying was 12min and Sundays warm up was 5min, a lot depends on the quality of machines and riders, to make a meet run smoothly.

[Mr.Ed]

Sure, $235 is not a lot of money if you're talking racing but $15/lap is not exactly what I'd call a bargain... especially considering the likelihood of not even getting all 15 laps in. And that's not even factoring in all the other added costs that you have with every race meeting.

[Jakels]

I think Tarmac Talk can take a large chunk of the blame for the low number of entrants for this meet.



As soon as this thread was place in the track day section rather than the Australian Racing section the meet never stood a chance.

[Mstevo]

Sure, $235 is not a lot of money if you're talking racing but $15/lap is not exactly what I'd call a bargain... especially considering the likelihood of not even getting all 15 laps in. And that's not even factoring in all the other added costs that you have with every race meeting.

you forgot to add tires, fuel, food and accommodation... mine = $80+/lap :-(

[Nelso]

For all of those that are concerned that PCRA can not finish a race meet; this year they have completed ALL of their scheduled events at EVERY club round this year, except last Saturday's, where they started their last race at 4:15PM, but had to abandon it after a crash resulting in a serious medical evacuation. They have changed a few things this year which has resulted in fewer oil spills, crashes and delays, so it has improved dramatically.




As for something similar happening before; in 2013 the NSW Titles charged a premium price and scheduled 2 races each day, so no one entered. They changed it at the last minute and dropped the price and offered 4 races each day and enough people entered for it to run. There was no mention of never running state titles again etc, it just became better value, so people went.

Personally, I think they should just run historic state titles on a single day and when the modern racers complain that they want in too, add the second day and run them over a weekend. I would also run all of the historic and modern 125's, 250's, Moto 3's, Production classes together, so that similar speed/sized bikes can fill an entire grid and then run 2 to 3 different classes of historic classes mixed together, all of the sidecars, and then 600 and 1000 modern classes (or throw them together if you only have 50 or less modern bikes entered).

[Little Mick]

Maybe we have different recollections Rob. I remember it being said, whether 2nd hand or otherwise, in 2013, that if it wasn't successful then there wouldn't be another state championship and that the riders would ultimately lose out.

It's the same as mentioned above and sound all too familiar to last time to be my imagination. .

[Marshy]

I think Tarmac Talk can take a large chunk of the blame for the low number of entrants for this meet.



As soon as this thread was place in the track day section rather than the Australian Racing section the meet never stood a chance.

[Lets Torque]

Enough hacking on the old bikes holding up processions - as if it werent for our old bike the technology of today's bikes would not exist. !!!

I can name quite a few stoppages at StGeorge/Fx rounds Eg Sicko/ Chubb etc which were not only caused by mechanical failure but plain accidents - so labeling PCRA as as reason for stoppages / scape goat is fucking bullshit so get off your modern bike high horse podium full stop.

If you dont want to enter due to financial constraints so be it, no one is forcing you, this is the reason i didnt enter last year is this reason.

IMO historic/mordern should be run on a individual days over the weekend and this would make for two differing audiences and make it more so viable from a marketing perspective and also not forcing riders to endure the cost of both days.

[Marshy]

All good; not meaning to diss the old girls

It's just track time, or more specifically lack of it. One day each and the program works. Spreading everyone over two days with so few races/laps/times on track is just silly. If you have to wait 3 hours between sessions, you've gone cold, gotten bored, and are ready to go home, not jump back on the bike, in my experience. And the State Titles have always been thus. I remember saying the same thing back in 1999.

[Lets Torque]

MA is trying to do to much and it is a recipe for failure

The old saying prevails , KISS - Keep It Simple Stupid

[dan]

Now that the price has dropped I'll probably enter. Haven't been out on EC in anger since the great highside of 2013!

Shame there isn't more races though.

[Negrogrande]

no MA license and the joys of stamp duty mean I'm out, might come and spectate though

[Lets Torque]

how did you go with the sparky?

[Negrogrande]

how did you go with the sparky?

Haven't called yet, I'm at the track this weekend Bernie day

will drop him a line next week as I've got nothing on for the weekend so I can drop the dirty off

[fitzy]

For me entering my first race weekend 2 weeks back at broady this is cheap and perfect for me. If i dont go i will prob invest 200 bucks into the liver anyways haha . Plua get to try master my starts. Some track time also before 4hr and sprint at wakefield. And as mentioned two days with some mates at the track and support my club. Hope to see some of you guys there

[KANGA]

I just filled out the forms. This will be my first time racing so fingers crossed!

[Lets Torque]

Haven't called yet, I'm at the track this weekend Bernie day

will drop him a line next week as I've got nothing on for the weekend so I can drop the dirty off

[Marshy]

I just filled out the forms. This will be my first time racing so fingers crossed!

Very exciting!!! You'll be a bit frustrated with the big gap between races, but I'm sure you'll have a ball anyway

[Condor]

Am I able to cross enter any other classes with 2012 R6??

[KANGA]

Very exciting!!! You'll be a bit frustrated with the big gap between races, but I'm sure you'll have a ball anyway

Yeah I'm pretty excited/nervous. I had that thought but I figure it might be good for my first event, be a bit less rushed.

[Marshy]

Am I able to cross enter any other classes with 2012 R6??

Nope. Sorry mate :(

[Condor]

Didn't think so. Im still keen as to ride though its been way to long so Ima gonna go anyways.

[Metal-Man]

I'm in ..... form'll be sent in thru the week

anyone wanna garage with me or vise versa????

[Mstevo]

any news on an amended schedule and increased races?

[Nelso]

It's still practice, qualifying and one race Saturday and two races Sunday.

If they get 120 entries and have 10 race categories, that's only 12 entries per race. Surely they could merge some of the classes to increase the number of races you get.

[Mstevo]

It's still practice, qualifying and one race Saturday and two races Sunday.

If they get 120 entries and have 10 race categories, that's only 12 entries per race. Surely they could merge some of the classes to increase the number of races you get.

it's not the decrease in entry cost that would get me, it's the increased lap time(value for money) as I'm still going to be up for $900 fixed costs without entry fees

[Lets Torque]

i reckon it will get canned.. its just not value for money and its a shit fight....

[dan]

Got my entry in the other day. I'll be making up numbers but will be fun to get out anyway.


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[Nelso]

It's going ahead. I don't know how many they ended up with, but they have confirmed that it will still run.

Unfortunately I can't do it as we simply don't have enough money to add it to the list of race meets I'm already doing.

I also heard that it's not PCRA and St George that are running it, it's MNSW (the other clubs are just helping MNSW) and they are the ones who are going to lose out because of their poor choice of schedule.

[Negrogrande]

I'm on recovery on Sunday see you out there

[dan]

http://www.motorcycling.com.au/Porta...2006072015.pdf


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[Turbo]

All the best to everybody out racing over the weekend!!
Here's to PB's and trophies all around!

[dan]

Are you going to pop your head out Owen?


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