MA National Grading System Proposal

[Marshy]

I've had a read through all the previous comments regarding a grading system, and (mostly) gone with Senator8's proposal in the attached document. I know it won't suit everyone (it's not how I personally envisaged a new system working either) but on significant reflection it seems to be the best compromise between managing disparate and self-motivated interests and ensuring outright objectivity, whilst actually being able to be managed by simpletons. Constructive comments welcome, but let's also not go over old ground with personal axes. We clearly can't please everybody!

MA National Grading System Proposal.pdf

[Linden]

Nick I see a couple of issues ...

- myself and others who ride outside the 1000 and 600 classes typically run with smaller grids and therefore do not reach the 10 rider threshold
- as riders get older they go slower (well most do) eg I will never be as fast as I was 20 years ago and realistically my level is at the bottom of the non novice (and heaps of those were in front of me over this weekend)

[Marshy]

Point 1. You can't please everybody. I think it still works based on your grid, not just by class (just like the STG handicap, as it happens). So you'd be classified based on the combined CSU/BEARS F4-5 grid.

Point 2. You'd go backwards in grade, as mentioned in the proposal, based on being in the bottom 30% all the time. But I've proposed backstepping as being optional, not mandatory, so you can stay at your higher grade if you choose. So you'd be C grade, unless you were B grade and choose to keep that grade.

[Mr.Ed]

I agree with 99% of that but... I still think a rider should have NO GRADE and be simply classified as "Novice" for his 1st 2 race meetings and start from the back of the grid regardless of how well he/she did on qualy. AFTER 2 meetings, it's easy to assess how fast or slow he/she is and then grade him appropriately. There are a LOT of guys who are D graders on their 1st year that really are competing in the top10 the whole time and that is very demotivating for "true" D graders and not even fair for the new rider himself.

When Rhino started a few years back he was doing 40s by his 2nd meeting or something... that simple rule of 2 race meetings would have made it better for everyone. And safer at the start. My 2c.

[Marshy]

Thanks Ed. I think I was trying to make that point. I had the Novice (D) grade heading but then just used Novice in the text. I agree it's not D grade, it's no grade. You're simply a Novice.

Strictly two meets? Or x number of races over no more than 3 meets? If you're keen to get out of Novice, and cross enter the hell out of your first St George meet to get to 10 races, then tickety boo! You're away. If you take it slow, you can't spread it out too far anyway.

Agreed about always starting from the back. I forgot about that.


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[Mr.Ed]

Yep, you're right! Number of races would definitely make it more fair but it has to be more than one meeting's worth and more than 1 track or we'll have the 'track experts' who can do 1:05 at WP but won't even do a 1:50 at EC.

[Linden]

Maybe as well as starting at the back of the grid for the first meeting (or race) they are held and have a second set of lights at 5sec (no turn one fun on first launch)

[Mr.Ed]

Not sure that'd be such a good idea...

1- 'cause they will have no one to learn from. It's not like most novices will be able to close a 5sec gap...

2 -because if they do try to close that gap we're not gonna be finishing many races without a red flag.

3 - I think with them being novices the idea is to make it simpler for them... imagine what would happen if there were 5-6s novices on the same race and the guy on the back got jumpy and went on the 1st lights.

[Marshy]

but it has to be more than one meeting's worth and more than 1 track or we'll have the 'track experts' who can do 1:05 at WP but won't even do a 1:50 at EC.

I don't think being a track expert matters. What I really need from a novice is know they've done a bunch of real race starts, and have some idea of what happens when the whole field barrels into the first tight turn on a racetrack. Being particularly good at one track doesn't mean those important skills won't transfer to a new track. Their qualifying position at a new track will group them with similarly-paced riders by default, and a race start is a race start is a race start. Besides, some people may only ever race at, say, the Creek, and you don't want them Novices forever.

[Linden]

1 I said first race
2 One of the issues (real or not) is them trying to win the whole race before 1/2 a lap has gone
3 cos you have a guy with a flag in the middle of the track stopping them going (we've don't it before a Prestons handicap races where fastest start LAST)

[Linden]

lets bring back push starts ....

[BG851]

Hi Nick,

Long time lurker, first time poster.....and this is a topic I felt its worth posting about.....
Ive enjoyed watching your race videos, which is how I found this forum, and the last video you posted of that unlimited race you started from the back has compelled me to post. That was some of the scariest shit ive ever seen. The desperate moves some of those guys in the wobbler vests are the reason we have delays like we had on saturday. Trying to pass people so tight they are on the curb....wow....and then they wonder why they dont make it out the other side....

When I did my first road racing back in 1994 or '95, nearly everyone in D grade started on 125's or 250 production bikes. Very few rode 600's, and from memory, that was the biggest you could ride whilst in D grade. I rode my dirt track bike before getting a 250 proddie!
Perhaps an idea would be to return to a similar idea for those starting out or inexperienced? Nothing bigger than a 600 or similar power output bikes? (My bike is a 1000 but has similar power to a 600).
I always had thought that grading worked on the idea of your lap times being within a certain percentage (consistently) of the lap record for your bike or class. So if we say the superbike lap record is 1:30 at eastern creek, and we say you must be within 10% of that to be graded C grade, that takes us to 1:39. If we then say B grade is 8%, that gives us roughly 1:37. (This is just a quick example to make the maths easy....not a hard and fast suggestion). That way the percentage criteria could be taken across to any given category, rather than say finishing top 30% results wise....some years the depth is greater than others?

Agree with the obvious exceptions for those coming from MX, dirt track, motard, juniors etc, but simply lapping at ride days and racing are not the same.

Anyway, just a suggestion, but I like your initiative in attempting creating a better and safer system!

Cheers

Brad

[Marshy]

Hi Brad,

Thanks for taking the time to post! Feel free to join in anytime

I like the capacity idea, but think that on a practical level it's too difficult. I started in 1999 on a 1000cc, just because I already owned it but after being hit by a car I wanted to ride it off the street. I wouldn't've had the cash to buy a different bike.

With regard to lap times, that's certainly what I was thinking originally. I don't really know which approach would be easier to administer, and more likely to be accepted. Lemme have another go at the document.

Cheers,
Nick

[Marshy]

Version 2, incorporating two options for consideration. Grading via laptimes as a percentage of the class lap record, and the previously mentioned results+experience proposal.

Thoughts??

MA National Grading System Proposal v2.pdf

[simonr]

it has to come down to lap times and experience. it wouldn't work on capacity.

try telling a guy who has been doing track days for 5 years on a 1000, that he has to go down to a 300 if he wants to start racing

[Marshy]

Oh, just fyi, the percentage brackets work out to about:

EC:
A: better than 1:37.2
B: 1:37.3 to 1:45.3
C: over 1:45.3

PI:
A: better than 1:39.2
B: 1:39.3 to 1:47.3
C: over 1:47.3

Broadford:
A: better than 1:00.2
B: 1:00.3 to 1:05.3
C: over 1:05.3

[Mr.Ed]

I'd reduce the bracket at EC for B to at least 1:41.8... then C can be from there onward. I reckon on any given race meeting (assuming it's dry, not too cold, not too hot) most riders will be in the high 40s to mid 45s, so there has to be a split there otherwise you'll have 20 B graders vs 5 A graders and 7 C graders. Plus we all know the faster you get, the harder it is to drop time... the difference between 45s to 37s is an eternity and most will never get there I think. From 46s to 41s however, is not impossible and with enough racing, most ppl will get there. But it will take experience. So to me it makes sense they become B graders once they get past that.

Also, no brackets for D? Not sure I understood the proposal then... Thought the novice would also serve as a way to get ppl into the right grade after they served their time? I'd put a C bracket of 41.8 to 46.0 and D grade if over that.

[Marshy]

Sorry Ed, they are 1000cc times. 600cc times are approx 2.5 secs slower. Updated to be 14% (1:42.6 on a 1000cc). I'd expect B to be the most populated class.

D isn't a grade, under this proposal; it's just a brief stepping stone to getting race experience and a proper grade. This takes into account and caters for the other States that don't have 4 grades. I was thinking that we shouldn't get 'participation trophies', but having just been at the (very very well attended) presentation after St George with the sea of trophies being handed out to what looked like roughly half the attendees, I might have changed my opinion somewhat.

[Marshy]

Response from MA (very quickly too.... within 20 minutes):

Hi Nick,

Thanks for your email. The proposal has been received in full and will be added to the agenda for the 2017 Joint Commission meeting. This meeting is to be held in March next year and will look to ratify policy and regulation changes for 2018 and beyond.

Should the Commission require any additional information, either in the meantime or after the meeting, then I will be sure to let you know.

Thank you again for taking the time to submit your ideas and feedback on this system, and please feel free to contact me if you need anything further or would like to add to your proposal.

[cormac]

Hi Nick,

Hope you don't mind me sharing my perspective on the grading system and club racing from the perspective of the novice.

I came to road racing in my mid-thirties, like many mostly because it was the only phase of my life where I could afford the cost of the machinery, track time and the training to make me safe enough to participate in a racing event. As with any sport, I assume our goals are to encourage participation by making things accessible, fair and safe.

Fairness

The challenge I see with D grade is participants are not actually graded. In ClubSport 600 at EC we have the faster end doing 1:40's and the slower end doing 1:58's. The large disparity in times and skill levels within the group diminishes the enjoyment for new entrants as they are simply never going to be competitive in their own grade. Other codes go to great lengths to make sure participants are competing against people with similar skill level at the initial stages.

My view is that it’s not helpful to refer to novices as not being in a grade. I think grading is most critical at the entry level as it will drive ongoing participation.

My suggestion would be to make the grading for new entrants more dynamic, by continually assessing race results and moving riders with times consistently outside of the normal distribution.

Accessibility

The leap between participating in a track days and club racing for many is a huge one. The leap has to be made by the novice with little or no support. By contrast, the transition from road riding to track is supported by StayUpRight, SuperBike School, TopRider etc. while the transition to racing has no direct support that I am aware of.

By direct I mean events where participants are coached on race starts, race etiquette, strategy e.g. don’t try to win the race in 3 corners, etc.

Perhaps the concept of mentoring should be promoted at club level so people in the higher grades would be encouraged to support newcomers in D grade.


Safety

After seeing the horrific incident on Saturday at St. George I would prefer the introduction of the smaller 3x3x3 grid as you have already proposed.

The importance of getting away on the grid is also a worthy topic for the D grader briefing on the first day. Newcomers like myself arrive at with zero experience starting from a stationary grid.

As silly as it sounds an already overwhelmed newcomer may not understand the implication of stalling on the grid and is taking risks they don’t full understand by attempting to get an aggressive start.

[Marshy]

Thanks mate; I welcome all perspectives! In my view, it is vital to have a conversation around this. I'm hoping that MA will welcome the discussion, and will make the appropriate changes.

I like the mentoring approach. I should clarify that there are several prongs to my approach for minimising the risk of additional start line incidents.

1. Get the grid layout changed.
2. Get St George on board with making changes to assist new racers develop start skills, including:
- In the separate D/Novice warmup, there should be at least two practice starts on the real grid, using the lights and a full race start simulation. Ie grid up, lights, launch, do one lap and grid up again, and repeat.
- Have a special novice briefing covering race starts specifically. Techniques, tips, what to look out for etc.
- Start all Novices from the back of the grid.

More generally regarding D grade, it's really just a question of how finely you want to slice the grades pie. At National level meetings, grading is immaterial - they don't separate grades. At club meets, there's almost always 2 grades that are combined due to lack of numbers. Most commonly it's A and B grades, although in some other classes it's C and D. The idea of only having three grades is to reduce this and to boost numbers in each grade. Plus other states already only have 3 grades, so a national system has to try and suit everybody.

The idea with Novice is that it's just a starting platform for new racers. You get pampered and cozied to get all the attention you need to learn how to launch, and how to ride in a race. Then you quickly move up; you're not a novice after you've learnt how a race weekend operates. In my view, you don't need to wear a pink vest for a year, possibly two years. Once you learn the basics, you're good to go.

[Metal-Man]

The leap has to be made by the novice with little or no support. By contrast, the transition from road riding to track is supported by StayUpRight, SuperBike School, TopRider etc. while the transition to racing has no direct support that I am aware of.

By direct I mean events where participants are coached on race starts, race etiquette, strategy e.g. don’t try to win the race in 3 corners, etc.

They have Race Your Mates (RYM) at Wakefield Park, which gives you an introduction into race starts

[Marshy]

They have Race Your Mates (RYM) at Wakefield Park, which gives you an introduction into race starts

Not any more. Pity, because it was the best thing anyone ever did to encourage new racers. Credit where credit is due; good work by TON.

[Ruckos87]

They have Race Your Mates (RYM) at Wakefield Park, which gives you an introduction into race starts

Not any more. Only in other states Terry parted ways with Wakefield park. Was a great introduction and needs to be introduced in some way at SMSP.


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[shippy__]

wow...

Thats actually very well point together and thought about, its hard for me to comment as i have just been though all this with MSNW and had everything I believed in knocked down

thanks nick for making a solid effort in improving the sport

perhaps E and F to be introduced... leaving A and B for national level

I am verry happy to be B next year and looking foreword to racing B with st goerge, but I cant take my B grade anywhere near asbk or ill be humiliated

[Marshy]

Thanks Shippy, it's nice to have my work appreciated.

ASBK doesn't use grades. You stand on your ability against all comers, not an arbitrary grade. Nationals is Nationals.

[nigelnobody]

I am verry happy to be B next year and looking foreword to racing B with st goerge, but I cant take my B grade anywhere near asbk or ill be humiliated[/QUOTE]

Correct me if i am wrong but allowable internal modifications in both national classes go a long way to improving lap times.
Cam timing,raised limiters,programmed ecu etc.?
ASBK (09) superstock 600 of 1:37 record E/C unmodified engines would explain why anything around 38- 40's would give that "maxed out" feeling.

[shippy__]

Hi nigel

Imo their isn't much to be made from power in regards t lap times, maybe a second or 2 max from a 600

below are a couple of the fx results from SMSP, fx rules are basically next to stock. Mine makes 113hp on the fx dyno theirs make 116hp on the fx dyno, no difference there.

Mitch levy B grade 134.948 258kph though the trap
Sam Muldoon B grade 135.661 263kph through the trap

Matthew Shipp C grade 140.200 262kph through the trap

kph.. no differnace there.

whats the point in raising limiter's if the bike stops making power?
whats the point in changin timing if your running legal pump gas?

this comment isn't where it belongs.... we shouldn't hijack marshy's good deed here

[nigelnobody]

Agree mate Nick has been really taking the issues up with regards to all our interests. Much appreciated on my behalf.

[Carl-52]

When i was in D grade it became a common laughing point (no sarcasm/not derogatory) for the St George officials to ask me specifically "Carl, do you have anything to add?" during the D grade only briefing held after the main riders brief. Usually i would ask about the starting system, lights, flags etc (even though i had it down and sorted) and suggest to look forward not at the revs when the lights go out and to also not try to win the race on the 1st two corners. This would result in a laugh most of the time from other riders but i did it primarily to put it into the minds of a newcomer who might not have considered those points or not quite understood it completely. I dont know if this continues now that i am C grade but i have occasionally said goodmorning to Terry Whelan and he has asked my thoughts on the day so far, how i think it will turn out etc ( common track chat stuff) and ive always asked if they could repeat the previous D grade briefing pointers. In respect to time discrepancies between front and back of the grid, its always going to be huge. But there should still be the 110% rule applied, if you arent fast enough to race safely, its is the clubs responsibility to tell you. Either way i didnt have a problem with any riders over the weekend during practice or qually, i had to open my eyes and anticipate their actions more so than usual but it was easy to do.

[Carl-52]

Good proposal marshy, reads well and all points are easily followed. D grade practice should have a practice start or two incorporated < best idea that will stop half of the problems. Id make them race starts to the 3rd / 4th corner tho like RYM is as t2 is the crunch point at the Creek and technically so is wakey.

[Bashman899]

This is my first ever season of any kind of racing ever, as such I'm still a D-grade ride. And I have to agree with a lot with what marshy has proposed.
Having had my first race EVER at Phillip island this year, I'd have to 100% agree with a D-grade rider starting at the back of the grid for their FIRST race. My first ever race was in the 600's in that was in the wet. My mate Adrian can vouch for this, but my first start was an absolute shit fight. I was too busy watching everyone else take off. It took me another 2secs to realise I was actually in a race.
My 2nd start, again in the wet was with me now mid pack after moving through the field. With all the spray ect going into T1. I literally could not seen a thing and was a case of following a patch of white leather on the rider in front of me.
That bought on Sunday where I thought I'd get some "practice starts" by cross entering BEARS. Again a wet start but again at the back of the grid. Being on a Daytona 675, I thought I'd get shown up by the big boys there.
Somehow i managed to finish mid pack and was starting amongst the bigger bikes. Starting mid pack in the wet on a smaller bike on your first race wknd was an something I'll never forget. The spray and the feeling of being swamped by the bigger bikes quickly put me in my place.
So I agree with d-graders starting from the back of the pack for their first race wknd, but not every meet after. That's if the rider proves himself to Be able to start off safely.
Once I had experienced a race start, I didn't find it such a hard task to do both safely and semi competive. Still being a D-grade rider now, I don't feel there is a reason for me starting at the back of the grid anymore, especially when I'm now finding myself starting to the jump on the two rows in front me now. I still need to work on the rest of the race but hahaha

[Dunno]

Once upon a time when there were actual clubs (more than one), the A & B graders took a D grader under their wing.
A racer who had competed at National Championships, Bathurst etc and had years worth of racing under their belt.
All of this knowledge was passed on at club practice days. "You want to enter the kink here" "on the grid you want to work your way over here".

I've had conversations with a former A grade & international l racer who said if wasn't for their mentor, they would never have achieved what they did. When this person improved and started to master the arts, they were assigned a D grader to complete the cycle. This was all done by the club.

Don't put it on MA. There used to be 6 clubs in Sydney who held "practice days" at Oran Park and Amaroo. Now days there are more racers, less clubs, less circuits and more incidents. Unfortunately it falls back on the clubs and there is only one that we're all members off as the rest have fallen by the wayside.
Any club or union is only as strong as its members.
Instead of pointing the finger, maybe we should be looking inward and asking "what can I do?"

Perhaps we should be championing our cause with St George instead of MA and asking for a mid week practice day where people congregate and share their experience? The club would have to pay for it and would nominate a set cost for the C & D graders. A & B graders would be offered a "minimal cost" practice day if they agreed to take on and mentor a lower grade rider. The realistic view is A & B graders would pay the same amount but offer their advice to up and coming racers who could do with a quiet word.

It's a club. We're the members. Can we collectively make racing safer by imparting knowledge?

(Insurance would remain the same if everyone had a race license and all participants agree pit lane advice is indicative, not literal).

[Marshy]

I hear ya, Dunno. There's a couple of worthy points in there. The first is grading, and that has to be an MA responsibility. Getting the gradings right makes the sport fairer, more equitable, and ultimately more enjoyable for all.

Secondly, I'm losing count of the number of new racers I've mentored over the last 10 years. Encouraging them to start racing in the first place, then guiding them on what to do, where to go, bike setup, starting technique etc etc.... even posting this: http://tarmactalk.com/forum/showthre...ull=1#post7945

However, it was one of my proteges that stalled on the grid a few years ago, causing a serious accident. Unfortunately, some knowledge can only be gained by practice, and there were no opportunities for practicing race starts. This is where the club needs to step up. The problem is that it's run by a small group of volunteers, and they aren't either receptive to or accessible for making changes.

Even mid-week days at the Creek are horrendously expensive, and with the best will in the world, the club couldn't afford to host such a day. The obvious solution is to have ARDC allocate us our own Private Practice day, the Friday before round 1 in February. Then the changes you and I have suggested (practice starts, lessons from experienced riders etc) could be implemented in a cost-effective way. We should all be requesting a PP from ARDC on that Friday. The club needs to be presented with a proposal to consider and implement. What can we suggest as a proposal for a dedicated bike-only private practice on the day before round 1 (if we can get that day)?

[Linden]

Dunno

Back when Moses was a boy and I started racing a couple of things prevented bad start incidents

1) Push start
2) Low power (without launch control and sticky tyres)
3) Lower cost / more races - could do more rounds etc so slightly smaller grids - 10 years ago MCRC used to do $110 race days at Oran Park

[Dunno]

I hear ya, Dunno. There's a couple of worthy points in there. The first is grading, and that has to be an MA responsibility. Getting the gradings right makes the sport fairer, more equitable, and ultimately more enjoyable for all.

Secondly, I'm losing count of the number of new racers I've mentored over the last 10 years. Encouraging them to start racing in the first place, then guiding them on what to do, where to go, bike setup, starting technique etc etc.... even posting this: http://tarmactalk.com/forum/showthre...ull=1#post7945

However, it was one of my proteges that stalled on the grid a few years ago, causing a serious accident. Unfortunately, some knowledge can only be gained by practice, and there were no opportunities for practicing race starts. This is where the club needs to step up. The problem is that it's run by a small group of volunteers, and they aren't either receptive to or accessible for making changes.

Even mid-week days at the Creek are horrendously expensive, and with the best will in the world, the club couldn't afford to host such a day. The obvious solution is to have ARDC allocate us our own Private Practice day, the Friday before round 1 in February. Then the changes you and I have suggested (practice starts, lessons from experienced riders etc) could be implemented in a cost-effective way. We should all be requesting a PP from ARDC on that Friday. The club needs to be presented with a proposal to consider and implement. What can we suggest as a proposal for a dedicated bike-only private practice on the day before round 1 (if we can get that day)?

Spot on. Bike only practice days would be great.

Dunno

Back when Moses was a boy and I started racing a couple of things prevented bad start incidents

1) Push start
2) Low power (without launch control and sticky tyres)
3) Lower cost / more races - could do more rounds etc so slightly smaller grids - 10 years ago MCRC used to do $110 race days at Oran Park

It's not all about the starts Linden. If you ever hit the deck during a race, you'd have some confidence knowing the riders behind you were capable of avoiding you. Like the Speedway guys who have to demonstrate they can lay the bike over at speed.

Those MCRC days were more than 10 years ago mate. Where does the time go?????

[Wolfie57]

Sorry boys been meaning to reply to this for ages. There's some great ideas and comments and without a doubt something needs to be done to help reduce serious incidents like what happened on Saturday. It's really bad when there are spectators that are attending for the first time and they see something like that happen, it doesn't help the profile of the sport and they probably just think we all have a death wish.

When I started in the UK they had a fantastic system, you needed to attend an ACU sanctioned practice day where your riding skills were assessed, you did a number of practice starts and had to sit a classroom test. This was the only way to get a race license. Following this you took part in 'rookie' only championships for the first year and had to wear an orange vest until you had completed/finished 10 races and could graduate from a novice license.

I appreciate that we wouldn't have enough D graders to run on their own unless 600's and 1000's raced together but obviously had separate point scoring. If we all race together I don't have an issue with where they start on the grid as long as they have been assessed as competent with race starts. If the MA stipulated that new license applicants had to attend a practice day they could run it to make a profit by charging for it and enlisting volunteers to help run it which is what happens in the UK. I would happily volunteer for the day to help assess and mentor new riders if it meant we knew all new racers were competent and therefore less likely to be involved in serious accidents and cause multiple red flags when we are racing! I always thought it strange when I got here that anyone can get themselves a race license, we only have to look at track days to see how many people should NOT be given a license to race!

I think responsibility lies with MA to make sure that new participants are safe and deserving of a license rather than the clubs themselves who have enough on their plates with trying to not make a financial loss and get enough volunteers to be able to race.

Thoughts?

[Wolfie57]

Forgot to mention I like your proposal to MA regarding grading Marshy. I actually don't care too much about the fine detail as any sort of logic will be an improvement on what we currently have and save endless bitching and moaning!

I also agree that a bike only ARDC practice day before a race weekend is a no brainer, the cars have it and we easily get enough numbers to make it profitable for them.

[Carl-52]

All sounds absolutely reasonable and like a good system Wolfie.

[Wolfie57]

Check out the rider support and development section, this is for BEMSEE, the biggest club in the UK -

Perhaps you’ve had your fill of trackdays and are looking for a new challenge. Maybe you’ve raced in the past or race motocross and fancy trying track racing. Whatever your reason, BEMSEE is here to help.

Everyone who’s new to racing must take the written ACU CTC (competency to compete) course and since 2014, all riders are required to undertake an on-track assessment.

Bemsee runs one major Race School each year - 2017 is 18-19 February at Brands Hatch. So we would recommend you check other operators who are running courses in your area. A list can be found on the ACU website CLICK HERE

We also recommend checking out dates with MSVT, some of those courses are taught by Bemsee Clerks, DETAILS HERE



Some of the Paperwork you need to complete...

1) To obtain a race licence, you will need to sit a classroom session known as the ACU-CTC course. The ACU is our sport’s governing body and CTC stands for Competitor Training Course. In the classroom, you will be tutored on various aspects of racing, such as flags, safety, etc. At the end of the sessions you will need to answer a multiple choice paper, which, as long as you have been paying attention to the tutor, you should pass.

2) To race with BMCRC (or any Club these days), you will need to complete an on-track course, the BRA (Basic Rider Assessment) which will cover a wide range of practical exercises that will introduce you to aspects of on-track race craft. This will assess your competency to ride and give you the chance to experience a race-start with all that goes with it – attending the assembly area – coming onto the grid – the warm-up lap – the lights, the start. This course is now a requirement for new Race Licence applicants. Check with the operator you book your course with as to their paperwork requirements...

you should need to complete:

An ACU Licence Application form 2017 (see Top Right)

A BMCRC 2017 Membership form, if you wish to race with us (see Top Right)

Take your 2017 Licence Application form with you when you attend your course (or send it in advance if the operator you are taking the course with requests that). Your form should have the eye test report completed (see p2 of the form) before you do your CTC/BRA Courses. The operator should stamp the reverse of the Licence Application Form to show you have successfully completed both parts of the course. Then, if you wish to race at Bemsee send it in to our office address with your Bemsee Membership Form. We will check your submission and forward it to the ACU for you. If any of the above seems daunting or you need a bit more explanation, please feel free to call us anyway on 01708 720305.

A Final Note: The most common error on New Licence applications: If you've got a DVLA "A" Road-going Licence then you can start as an Intermediate Novice on a big bike. Only DVLA "A" Licence holders can ride 750's and 1000's. The standard Novice Licence grade (if you are not licenced to ride on the road) means you can only race a bike up to 600cc.



Rider Support & Development
The Bemsee Rider Development Programme has the reputation of being the best support package for Rookies in the market. Our rookie riders Director, Jeremy Hill will be available to you to contact for questions and advice and you’ll also receive a rookie rider pack with a wealth of information to help you at your first few meetings. In addition you will enjoy all these benefits:

Paddock Buddy: We will pair you up with an experience racer from your Class. They will be around at your early meetings to help show you the ropes - where to go - what to do.

Rider Development Programme: If you are able to find the time to do our Friday Testdays at each circuit, you will receive free instruction from one of our ACU Trained Coaches. The Club has invested time and effort to develop an extensive group of ACU Club Coaches over recent years and we now enjoy over 30 trained staff in this area - so we should be able to match you with an Instructor with experience on your type of machine.

Track Walks: The Club runs a Track Walk on the evening of each TestDay to assist new riders in gaining insight into what to look out for wherever we race. Usually attended by over 50 riders each time, often more, it's fun and very informative.

Bemsee Club Nutritionist: Free consultations & support for race fitness from our in-house trained Nutritionalist at each event and between meetings if you wish. See www.LT-info.com

Off track Mentoring: Regular masterclasses on suspension and other racing mysteries! There's always an expert available in the Bemee Paddock to assist with machine issues.

Facebook groups: Rookie, Club and Individual Class are available for you to request to join - see your Rookie Info Pack.
If you have any questions, don’t hesitate to call our office on 01708 720305 and we’ll guide you through the process.

Rookie Classes
Bemsee runs dedicated Rookie 600 and Rookie 1000 classes as well as rookie sections in:

Thunderbikes
Minitwins
400s
YPMs
Rider Reps
Every class has a rider representative, who can be contacted for more information about a class. See the Contact Section for their details.

[Nelso]

The desperate moves some of those guys in the wobbler vests are the reason we have delays like we had on saturday. Trying to pass people so tight they are on the curb....wow....and then they wonder why they dont make it out the other side....

This is the biggest issue with St George at the moment. So many newbies who think they are racing for sheep stations (in D grade FFS) with absolutely no idea, doing stupid, hi risk things on the track. Besides having a newbies only practice session (with a practice start), The COC needs to sit people out when they pull off these stupid moves, so they get the message that it is not how to race.

Marshy, good work putting something in place and starting the discussion. We all know something needs to be done to sort out the shitfight that the grading system is at the moment. Personally, I like the proposal using times to grade, as it allows people that are quick enough to skip grades. Having someone doing 1:31's at EC in their first year of road racing (or their first year back after a break), they should go straight to A grade. I also think that MA should not allow someone to race ASBK unless they are an A or B grader. It was dead set dangerous having someone doing 1:51's in ASBK at PI in the GP support races. I also agree that there should be no D grade, just A, B, C and novice and that there should be NO PRIZES at all for the novice group. It should be there simply for riders to LEARN about racing, not to think they are racing for sheep stations.

Maybe if St George settles these newbies down a bit, I might even do a few races with them next year. As it stands now, I am still a C grader though, as I haven't raced a modern bike for over two years, so how do you think that will go down? Lol

[zoidberg]

Thing is though, the reason there were delays on the saturday, were nothing to do with novices. It was a startline incident. Wasn't caused, nor involved any pink vests. Starting off and the first corner of any race will always be the most dangerous part of any part of racing. Shit can, and obviously does, go down from time to time. There would rarely be a good outcome to someone stalling on the grid? Doesn't really matter on the grade of the person that stalls?

I'd say this incident is more down to ARDC crowding the grid. I've only raced SMSP, Wakefield and PI. Don't even begin to claim to be anything other than complete amateur, but the grids at SMSP seem way more compact, scarier and more dangerous.

Horrible situation, really hoping all involved are going to be ok.

[Stu23]

I think the basic thing some guys tend to forget in the heat of the start procedure is what Chris ( ex COC of st george ) used to remind everyone of 'at the much better riders briefings' LOOK where your going off the start ! its a simple thing but so important

[Ruckos87]

I think some form of mentoring is key. I know I would have been well lost, with out the help of nick and all the guys on this forum. I recon we take it for granted, but the knowledge in this group alone is a good starting point for any budding racers.
I agree with most on here that there needs to be an introduction to racing (starts in particular) basically race your mates in some form, and some kind of assessment.
When I did my MA test it was open book and easy to pass. I still had to re read MOMs and ask a million questions prior to my 1st race. Where do you get that info and encouragement if not here? The one page speal on St George's web page?

How do you fix it? Not really sure.


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[Turbo]

Very much agree with this. There is a LOT to learn when one starts out racing. The consequences of not knowing what you are doing are very serious for you and those around you.
It's also that you don't know what you don't know and perhaps many don't appreciate the risks and responsibilities of the sport they're getting in to.
If I'd have know about RYM before I'd started I would deff have done a few of those before starting. Same with a day or two at the drags.
Going round the circuit quickly is one thing but is only a very small part of what makes up an experienced racer.

[Nelso]

I didn't have any practice starts, or special practice sessions when I started racing and I managed to keep myself from creating any dangerous situations; but, the big difference was I was 40 years of age and had a fair understanding of my limitations and more importantly, kept the red mist at bay. Weather the delay on Saturday was a newbie mistake or not, the number of accidents at St George has increased dramatically in the past couple of years and it just so happens to coincide with a huge influx of new racers. Most of these guys have done a lot of track days and are already pretty fast and I think that is a big part of the problem, as they all want to win their little plastic trophy; but, with no race craft, or knowledge of how to race in close proximity to other riders, they attempt ridiculous moves to get in front of the next rider and find the limit to their ability all too often. Sadly, this attitude and the inaction from the COC, has allowed this 'win at all costs' ethos to consume St George, which, at the end of the day, is just meant be a bit of fun. When I hear of guys running off the track in their first race meet, I just shake my head and think how long before you take someone out riding way above your ability like that. I think the mentoring that you guys are talking about also needs to focus on getting the newbies simply to settle the fuck down and take their time to get to know how things work and to get comfortable before they start to push. This is also why I think their shouldn't be any trophies for D grade/novice.

[Stu23]

Agree Rob 1000%

[Mac III]

I think some form of mentoring is key. I know I would have been well lost, with out the help of nick and all the guys on this forum. I recon we take it for granted, but the knowledge in this group alone is a good starting point for any budding racers.
I agree with most on here that there needs to be an introduction to racing (starts in particular) basically race your mates in some form, and some kind of assessment.
When I did my MA test it was open book and easy to pass. I still had to re read MOMs and ask a million questions prior to my 1st race. Where do you get that info and encouragement if not here? The one page speal on St George's web page?

How do you fix it? Not really sure.


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Agree with entirely Luke,
I have only done 2 races (Total Novice) & its only the help from you guys in the pits that have really given me that has been useful - A BIG thanks !

Is it only SMSP that has such a tight packed starting grid ?

Agree with you Nafe - "I'd say this incident is more down to ARDC crowding the grid. I've only raced SMSP, Wakefield and PI. Don't even begin to claim to be anything other than complete amateur, but the grids at SMSP seem way more compact, scarier and more dangerous.

Horrible situation, really hoping all involved are going to be ok."


With the big numbers in the field at that last meeting it could have happened in any race.

[Petefrost]

Senator8 for president!


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