St George handicap replacement

[Phat3R]

Did you also know, you can be a B grader in NSW and travel to Victoria for the first time and compete as a D grader? Sophie Lovett competes as a B grader in NSW, C in Victoria and a D grader in Queensland. Oh, what a wonderful system we have!

The first thing you need to do is get all parties involved to agree to coordinate their grading so that they actually mean something. PCRA, St George, ASBK and FX all think D grade mean completely different things, so the first thing to do is get the different bodies together. There's no point adjusting St George's policies if the rest just keep on doing whatever they want.

I think if we got some decent rule options down for St George, including socialised with the MA grading committee that we 'might' be able to get that side working ... As for FX / ASBK ... maybe wait and see where the future takes those at this stage, might all fix itself given enough time

[Mstevo]

The reason that FX and ASBK won't ever or anytime soon exclude anyone is they don't have enough on the grids of the premier classes already.
Last round ASBK had around 50 entries total.
This weekend at PI with the V8s there is 6 of them in total. Check natsoft yourself. It's embarrassing for the sport to say the least.

13 in total for race 1
looking at their times I could have been 3-4th lol only 4 weren't lapped by Allerton :-(

[senator8]

13 in total for race 1
looking at their times I could have been 3-4th lol only 4 weren't lapped by Allerton :-(

Yeah if I wasn't working, I might if even hopped on a plane and paid for a ride would've looked good on the cv.
They put out out a call for blow ins and offered free entry, which doubled the field.

[Little Mick]

bet that made the 6 initial guys happy

[dan]

How embarrassing :(

[Phat3R]

Once upon a time BSB use to be a dogs breakfast too ... it takes time, structure and getting the economics right to make these things work ... until there is one series with good promotion ...

Good read I can recommend:
Title: The story and spectacle of BSB
Author: Pinchin, Gary
ISBN:1844252116
Published: 2006
http://www.ebay.com/itm/British-Supe...-/140798615594
[I got a copy from a book stall in Westfield Miranda for $10]

Into:
Superbike racing began in Britain in 1971 when Motor Circuit Developments (MCD) and the weekly newspaper Motor Cycle News joined forces to promote the first-ever MCN Superbike Championship.
...
In the past eleven seasons of of BSB the class has enjoyed real stability and direction that has allowed it to grow into the massive televised road show that everyone knows and loves. The reason for the success can largely be put down to a change of management. More precisely, promotion of the series was taken out of the hands of the old-school, conservative committee-led Auto Cycle Union (the ACU is the governing body of motorcycle sport in the UK) by the circuit promoters and subsequently has flourished in a way very few thought possible.

...

McLaughlin's Superbike Concept:
Professional racer Steve McLaughlin drafter the regulations with help from his race tuner Jerry Branch. McLaughlin, whose outspoken character earned him the nickname 'Motormouth'; is probably the most important figure in the history of Superbike racing. He had served for eight years as the AMA rider's representative and formed the basic concept of the superbike class after meeting Aussie racer Warren Willing in the states. He told McLaughlin about the production based superbike class that has run in Australia since 1971.

...

http://www.motorcyclemuseum.org/hall...px?RacerID=320

[Stu23]

Dr Jonathan Palmer Ex formula 1 guy owns lots of circuits ( MSVR i think ) is the company..... really changed it around re promotion, rider / circuit safety..... Top guy, a lot to thank him for

[Phat3R]

Dr Jonathan Palmer Ex formula 1 guy owns lots of circuits ( MSVR i think ) is the company..... really changed it around re promotion, rider / circuit safety..... Top guy, a lot to thank him for

http://www.isu.org/vsite/vcontent/pa...m-item,00.html
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Racesaf...ls_Association

[Nelso]

As I said somewhere before. Konsky and TON need to go and the most likely group to take over at this point is MRRDA. They will be having seniors at their race meets in the second half of next year and if it's well supported, who knows where that will lead to. I'm interested to see where their new management team is going to take them.

[Mstevo]

As I said somewhere before. Konsky and TON need to go and the most likely group to take over at this point is MRRDA. They will be having seniors at their race meets in the second half of next year and if it's well supported, who knows where that will lead to. I'm interested to see where their new management team is going to take them.

+1 and I'd love to see MNSW get the Nowra project up and running ASAP

[chubb]

So when do they actually send you the letter to say what grade you are?

[Mstevo]

So when do they actually send you the letter to say what grade you are?

before the first race meet next year

[Mstevo]

We are currently preparing a notice to send out to all competitors regarding suggestions to overcome the handicap problems.

I received this from the club(St George) amongst some other correspondence, the club is very willing to look at any and all constructive suggestions. well done Nick :-)

[Marshy]

I received this from the club(St George) amongst some other correspondence, the club is very willing to look at any and all constructive suggestions. well done Nick :-)

Interesting! Wonder what they have in mind. As far as I knew, I was talking with them again on Wednesday night about it. I am trying to prepare a powerpoint.....

Just out of interest, what correspondence? I never get any from the club.

[Mstevo]

Just out of interest, what correspondence? I never get any from the club.

I sent in an email regarding the Broadford races next year and they responded to it

[dan]

+1 and I'd love to see MNSW get the Nowra project up and running ASAP

Excuse my ignorance but what is the 'Nowra Project'?

[Little Mick]

http://www.shoalhavenmotorsport.com....hoalhaven.aspx

[dan]

That would rule.

[Negrogrande]

http://www.shoalhavenmotorsport.com....hoalhaven.aspx

any idea on what the track would look like?

[Mr.Ed]

I only hope they live up to their own hype by mentioning EC and PI in there... Don't get me wrong, even another a small track like Wakey would be great but if they build something over 3.5Kms long and as wide as PI/EC it'd be AWESOME!

[Stu23]

on the st george website, it is announced they are welcoming ideas for the handicap system and it future..... I have sent my ideas in, maybe not a good idea for everyone to, Nick you have some ideas too, so lets not flood them with mails !! spam attack lol

[Nelso]

http://www.shoalhavenmotorsport.com....hoalhaven.aspx

Their grant application was knocked back so it is not likely to go ahead now.

[Little Mick]

Bummer. :(

[Little Mick]

for for thought for the Handicap... why not have a lucky dip draw or lucky door prize points allocation in the case of a tie for first or any other position?

[Phat3R]

for for thought for the Handicap... why not have a lucky dip draw or lucky door prize points allocation in the case of a tie for first or any other position?

Rock, paper, scissors is so much more adult!

[chubb]

It just needs to be kept simple.

[Nelso]

What was wrong with my idea of bonus points to the older, fatter riders with the older, more standard bikes? In all seriousness, t's an easy thing to split without flipping a coin. There are plenty of variables that could be taken into account.

One idea is, in the case of a tie, give loyalty points to the riders. Give a bonus point for every year the rider has been an active member of the club, that way you split the tie and the person that has been supporting the club the longest gets something in return. Another idea is to favour the higher grades. If an A grader has the same points as a C grader, they have obviously ridden much better to get them. In the case of two or more A graders having a tie, count how many riders in their class and give the prize to the one who beat more riders, etc. etc.

There are plenty of ways to split a tie based on the rider without having to draw a name out of a hat.

[dan]

Makes sense to give it to the higher grade.

[chubb]

Another idea is to favour the higher grades. If an A grader has the same points as a C grader, they have obviously ridden much better to get them. In the case of two or more A graders having a tie, count how many riders in their class and give the prize to the one who beat more riders, etc. etc.

Why should an A grader get preference over a C?

If a C grader has tied with an A then the C grader has ridden better

Yes the A grader has more experience (possibly)

Maybe I'm just reading it wrongly.

[Stu23]

Typical self centered racers !!! where is the B grader in this calc huh huh !!

[Mr.Ed]

Why can't we just share?

[Medic!]

I'm going to the meeting tonight to have a listen and see what goes on. Also hope to ask some question s about license and racing next year
Can't offer much re grading etc. Only know what I've read here. Didn't realise it was in such a state.

[chubb]

Let us in on the goss.

[Marshy]

Interesting meeting. Heading to the Creek for a track day today, so will elaborate later. Or Rick B might want to comment?

[Mstevo]

Interesting meeting. Heading to the Creek for a track day today, so will elaborate later. Or Rick B might want to comment?

given the email that was sent out to all riders, they are appearing to be proactive..which can only be a good thing :-)

[Phat3R]

Interesting meeting. Heading to the Creek for a track day today, so will elaborate later. Or Rick B might want to comment?

There has been a hold up in handicap system calculations by Snowy for 2103 over some missing data from the Natsoft system. Jan will be supplying the raw data today. With the awards ceremony 8th Dec (RSVP 1 Dec), they know they need to get this calculated ASAP as they cannot obtain the prizes from many of the sponsors without supplying the name of the prize winner.

They are still taking written submissions regarding improvements with the handicap system in 2014 and are reviewing them as they come in. Some were briefly read out in inward correspondence. There is a special board meeting next week on the matter, Nick has been invited. They will need to make a decision for 2014 at that meeting as it will effect the by laws that they need to complete before years end for racing next year.

Brought up grading and large number of D's a the front. Was told grading is all MC NSW. Was told by several members it's 12 months, 3 race meets in D, then go to C. From there on it's done on times. Very unusual to skip a grade, although Casey Stoner's application to go straight to A was allowed. I'm going to shoot MC NSW an email today to get regulations for what/how they do grading.

[Little Mick]

Re grading- Obviously not the case in every case then ..

[senator8]

Yes, why can I not stop laughing. Even the part about it being all mnsw is a piss take.

[Mstevo]

Grading stops and starts with MA and their state bodies as well as AASA!
until they get their collective shit together(and it's clearly not a priority for either of them) clubs will continue to bear the brunt of riders discontent as the meat in the sandwich
If they start looking at the issues to-day will be a couple of years before any changes are implamented

[Phat3R]

Yes, why can I not stop laughing. Even the part about it being all mnsw is a piss take.

I just thought I would get the opening position from the club, (well from my perspective, it sounds like a few others have been down this road before). Sometimes it's a bit of a game of twister to get anywhere on these issues. I'll need to get stuff in writing from MC NSW. I find only when people can't twist no more, can discussions about core issues begin, until then it's just official policy stuff, which is understandable. A civil manner helps, especially with volunteers, everyone I've met, gives a lot of there time and means well, and face to face are genuinely helpful well meaning folk. We finished up at 10pm, but there were some meetings others had following that involved signing the ARDC agreements for SMSP next year for something like 20K+. They all need to read, discuss, agree, sign every page of 80 page document. So god knows what time the committee members got home!

Interesting aside. The interim figures for the rounds at SMSP came through, the club made about 11K profit, which 'almost' offset the losses from the previous rounds. Total cost is something like 75K+ for everything over the two days. But the third highest specific cost after track hire and medical was security, which is a mandatory fixed cost decided by the ARDC.

I'm also wondering if Marshy should ask Allison if she wants to join TT, maybe she is a member already, so she can share recent news and club updates with the forum. Maybe a StG MC thread?

Oh some good introductory ideas also came out on merchandising, Nick made some great suggestions so they actually sell some polo shirts at race days. [They often bring merchandising to the track, but no one has time to sell them as they are usually busy / short staffed].

[senator8]

Mstevo, I have to disagree. It is true the responsibility of the grading system lays with the sanctioning bodies. But in my individual case it was the club who decided I should compete as a C grader after 5 months and 1 club meeting. Being wet behind the ears at the time and not having a clue who decides what etc I assumed it was MA. As it turns out I was still a D grader except in St George. Club decision? I still don't have a clue and could care less now, but didn't Nick say the club submits the gradings to the Road Race commission or something?

[Phat3R]

Grading in cycling articles, some more ideas perhaps ... have to actively work to move up grades ... although it appears in MC racing people less interested in kicking up a grade to learn ... interested in why is that ... so much faster you don't learn, just get left behind?

http://cyclingtips.com.au/2011/02/au...rading-system/
http://www.cyclingtipsblog.com/2009/...rading-system/

[Phat3R]

From the MC NSW site this appears to contain some grading by info on where people start in the MA system. As per last nights discussion it appears overseas riders (regardless of their grade) are seen as new riders as they have not been in the MC NSW grading system before. This was described as fair, which I admit I couldn't totally wrap my head around. Some of the conversation also centered on the other side with riders riding at too higher grade and being too slow. Again I couldn't wrap my head around that as an issue given all grades from A to D are in the same race at club level.

S28 : Page 2 of 7 : 01/08
BY LAWS : ROAD RACING
1. GRADING
Senior riders commencing Road Racing shall be graded initially as “D” Grade. The exception will be riders who are already graded in “A” or “B” for Dirt Track, Motocross or Speedway; these
Riders will commence Road Racing in “C” grade. Any senior “A” or “B” graded rider who has not competed in Open Competition for a period of 2 years shall be downgraded automatically if they re
turn to racing, “A“ grade riders will downgrade to “B”, and “B” grade riders will downgrade to “C” grade. Junior riders attaining Senior age shall be graded initially as “C” grade providing they have
competed for a period of 1 year in Junior Road Racing, if not, they commence Senior Road Racing in “D” grade.

http://www.motorcycling.com.au/PDF_F...laws221107.pdf

[senator8]

Grading in cycling articles, some more ideas perhaps ... have to actively work to move up grades ... although it appears in MC racing people less interested in kicking up a grade to learn ... interested in why is that ... so much faster you don't learn, just get left behind?

http://cyclingtips.com.au/2011/02/au...rading-system/
http://www.cyclingtipsblog.com/2009/...rading-system/

What relevance is grading to learning to ride faster or race better? To me it is obvious, grading should be about racing and competing against your peers or like experience. Go a bit faster progress faster, improve a little slower progress a little slower. Until over time the experience importance or relevance diminishes and you should end up around your speed/grade/finishes dictate. I still don't understand a lot of the attitude of he/she is too fast for that grade instead of recognising or encouraging that persons performance relative to their experience. Especially as new riders come through. When little Johnny is top of the marks for his year(experience) at school, we don't say "if you do too well it's not fair on the other kids so we will put you with the bigger kids" because that's fair isn't it? Whilst there are subjective opinions making decisions about who should be graded what it's -------? fill in the blank