Lap Times

[Spilly209]

I rekon your good for 1:43 on the gp spilly

Hope so Bob! But I only did a 2:09 once that day - and was doing 2:11 - 2:12's on decent laps with limited traffic / no major mistakes today. Couldn't get under 2:10 again for some reason

[Spilly209]

In general, there's very little time to be made in slow corners. Conversely, fast corners have HEAPS of time to be gained. Unless you've already got it sorted, the biggest place to make up bulk time at the Creek is turn 1. If you are in the high 1:40s (GP circuit), eg 46s to 49s, there's often anything up to 5 seconds to be gained through there alone. Getting it even partly right can drop 2 to 3 seconds almost immediately.

Wow - 5 seconds in one corner! You're a big reason I've gone backwards at turn 1 Marshy - you had to go and crash there didn't you!

[Spilly209]

In general, there's very little time to be made in slow corners. Conversely, fast corners have HEAPS of time to be gained. Unless you've already got it sorted, the biggest place to make up bulk time at the Creek is turn 1. If you are in the high 1:40s (GP circuit), eg 46s to 49s, there's often anything up to 5 seconds to be gained through there alone. Getting it even partly right can drop 2 to 3 seconds almost immediately.

Actually mate I hate doing the tight new section but I think I'm relatively fast through there for some reason - always find I catch anyone I'm following up the twisty bit and often pass people at the T11 hairpin. Could mean my corresponding lap times on the GP circuit wont be as good as they should though...

[Marshy]

Wow - 5 seconds in one corner! You're a big reason I've gone backwards at turn 1 Marshy - you had to go and crash there didn't you!

Mechanical failure - it doesn't count as a proper crash. Woulda been fine otherwise. Go hard or go home!!

[Spilly209]

Mechanical failure - it doesn't count as a proper crash. Woulda been fine otherwise. Go hard or go home!!

True, scaring myself when I passed Sicko once and went in way too hot and felt like I was going to crash the Pani for about 5 seconds that felt like hours didn't help either. People used to tell me that I was fast in T1 when I was slower everywhere else...FML!

[chubb]

Hope so Bob! But I only did a 2:09 once that day - and was doing 2:11 - 2:12's on decent laps with limited traffic / no major mistakes today. Couldn't get under 2:10 again for some reason

build reference points... sounds like me when I had no f idea how to read the track and couldn't get consistent times.

I'm slowly getting the hang of it with trackmaps!

[dan]

Cool - sounds like we're basically running identical times mate. Get your foot sorted so we can chase each other around Sir Hop-a-long!

actually you and Marshy should have a race down pit lane on your crutches

You are cheating though you have an R6

[dan]

EC Full circuit
the fluoro R6
Dad's old ex Race R10's
2:19 (Timed by Stu23) Plus constant Knee draggin!!!!! dont like touching the knee at turn 1 tho

Flying mate!

[Marshy]

You are cheating though you have an R6

I keep telling you - an R6 is an unfair advantage! They really are just soooo much better than the other 600s. The kwakas are pretty close, and then there's a large gap to the gixxer and honda.

[Phat3R]

Yeah I'm considering disembarking from the Suzuki camp later this year ... those R6's go up to 11. Well by the look of Condor's tacho, 16,500 rpm versus 14,500 rpm on my ancient gixxer! God knows how many ponies that translates into? Dan you should definitely stay with Suzuki's for a few more years ... (give the rest of us a chance!)

[dan]

Yeah I'm considering disembarking from the Suzuki camp later this year ... those R6's go up to 11. Well by the look of Condor's tacho, 16,500 rpm versus 14,500 rpm on my ancient gixxer! God knows how many ponies that translates into? Dan you should definitely stay with Suzuki's for a few more years ... (give the rest of us a chance!)

When I get down to 40s I'll start thinking about changing. I've got heaps more to learn first and no doubt a have a bit more damage to inflict on my old girl haha

In the meantime it's fun going around bikes that are way faster and worth way more (and maybe even look a little tidier).

[chubb]

Yeah I'm considering disembarking from the Suzuki camp later this year ... those R6's go up to 11. Well by the look of Condor's tacho, 16,500 rpm versus 14,500 rpm on my ancient gixxer! God knows how many ponies that translates into? Dan you should definitely stay with Suzuki's for a few more years ... (give the rest of us a chance!)

peak power is made at about 14500 on the R6

[Phat3R]

When I get down to 40s I'll start thinking about changing. I've got heaps more to learn first and no doubt a have a bit more damage to inflict on my old girl haha

I like ... but ... I reckon you should wait till you get into the LOW 30's before changing ...

In the meantime it's fun going around bikes that are way faster and worth way more (and maybe even look a little tidier).

LOL ... I am sure you will ...

[Phat3R]

peak power is made at about 14500 on the R6

Gixxer doesn't have any peak powa ... mine kinda asthmatically wheezes its way onto the main straight ... in fairness gotta ditch the stock exhaust and connect up the PIII ...

[dan]

I like ... but ... I reckon you should wait till you get into the LOW 30's before changing ...




LOL ... I am sure you will ...

I went back through natsoft to 2004 and dudes were doing 37s on gixxer 600s at the time so until I'm getting within a couple of seconds of that I can't say the bike isn't quick enough cause it is.

[dan]

Admittedly they were probably a little, itsy bitsy better set up than mine but you get my point

[Marshy]

I gave up on my K8 600 when I hit 43s. I was absolutely wringing its neck to do those times - completely ragged edge stuff, right on the limit - and I felt it had nothing left. Admittedly that was on bog-stock, never serviced suspension, which would've made a difference. But then I bought an R6 and did 43s literally on my 3rd flying lap ever on the bike.

Once you ride one, you will understand. Just ask Owen, who rode Steve's R6 on the weekend, and raved about it compared to his gixxer!!

[Marshy]

Admittedly they were probably a little, itsy bitsy better set up than mine but you get my point

In supersport tune, with very hot engines, they are weapons! As a long string of ASBK Supersport titles from Phil Tainton's team will attest. But with not-breathed-on engines, and without highly tuned suspension, they are just too slow and soft.

[dan]

Yeah he loved it. Said he felt faster straight away.

I've never touched my suspension so that is my next step. I won't have time to finish the gold forks before Jan 27 so will be replacing the oil and trying to set it up a bit better. The stuff that came out was horrid and like water.

If I get to the point where I don't feel like I'm making any gains I'll look at options then. Until that point, unless I'm banging out my fast times over and over I'm better off working on my riding than spending $7-8000 to get a cheeky drop in lap times.

I've only been track riding 12 months so I reckon I've got quite a while to go before my bike is the thing holding me back.

[Turbo]

I gave up on my K8 600 when I hit 43s. I was absolutely wringing its neck to do those times - completely ragged edge stuff, right on the limit - and I felt it had nothing left. Admittedly that was on bog-stock, never serviced suspension, which would've made a difference. But then I bought an R6 and did 43s literally on my 3rd flying lap ever on the bike.

Once you ride one, you will understand. Just ask Owen, who rode Steve's R6 on the weekend, and raved about it compared to his gixxer!!

+1,000,000 Totally agree!! So much fun the R6, top bike! I'm planning to sell my K7 750 very soon and cross over. Thanks for the ride Spilly!
First session/hot lap I was easing equaling my 750 times and I came off with the biggest grin on my face. Dan is right too, they DO go to 11!

[dan]

In supersport tune, with very hot engines, they are weapons! As a long string of ASBK Supersport titles from Phil Tainton's team will attest. But with not-breathed-on engines, and without highly tuned suspension, they are just too slow and soft.

They are very soft, that is for sure. Had a ride on my mates 2001 R6 and it felt much more precise than my K3 600.

How much difference do you think it would make to my times jumping on a R6?

[dan]

They are very soft, that is for sure. Had a ride on my mates 2001 R6 and it felt much more precise than my K3 600.

How much difference do you think it would make to my times jumping on a R6?

(Done low 44s on this one, stock az)

[Marshy]

You can have a ride on mine (the old one, not the new one!) and find out.

[dan]

You can have a ride on mine (the old one, not the new one!) and find out.

Ohhh might have to take you up on that. What's the lap record

[Turbo]

Yeah he loved it. Said he felt faster straight away.

Best time on the gixxer over the weekend was 2:15.008. Found it tricky to be too keen on the gas too early, kept stepping out if I was too aggressive.
R6 felt like it was on rails and always in power band tho and it loved an early twist of the wrist! No doubt a lot of the 'on rails' feeling was suspension and slicks but the weight, wheelbase, rake and revs were glorious!
Seems like my timer dropped out on GPS whilst I was on Steve's bike tho so I'm not sure exactly what I was doing. Trying to decode now but I reckon I'd easily have equalled those times, in my first session on a new bike/setup!

[Turbo]

Dan is right too, they DO go to 11!

Rick I mean!

[senator8]

Dan & Rick, I reckon you two should stick with the poor suzukis for a while more. Troopers they are, and reliable. I've squeezed 43s/08s out of my 96 model with original untouched motor, fork revalved and a shock. Someone's got to stick up for the underdog

[Spilly209]

You are cheating though you have an R6

True but not cheating AS much now, at least it's the same capacity now and not double like the Pani!


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[Turbo]

Dan & Rick, I reckon you two should stick with the poor suzukis for a while more. Troopers they are, and reliable. I've squeezed 43s/08s out of my 96 model with original untouched motor, fork revalved and a shock. Someone's got to stick up for the underdog

Fair point, they have plenty to give and I don't hate the Gixxer,
Just haven't had a grin on my face that big for a while...

[Spilly209]

Fair point, they have plenty to give and I don't hate the Gixxer,
Just haven't had a grin on my face that big for a while...

I actually don't agree with sticking with a Gixer just because they are capable of better lap times in the right hands. Even if the R6 wasn't faster (which it is), if it's giving you a huge grin factor in comparison on every lap, isn't that what it's all about anyway? Like I'm sure Troy Bayliss can get much better times out of a 999 than I will ever get on my Pani but I wouldn't consider it because it's an inferior motorcycle and nowhere near as much fun.

I personally think how you feel on a bike and how much fun you're having is more important than reaching the max potential lap times. I think you'd learn / improve more quickly on an R6 too, esp in Owen's case as he's riding a Gixer 750 so he's going quicker on a bike with less capacity - ie he's not just going quicker cos he has more horsepower, he actually has less. So to me that says the R6 is giving him more confidence / feel to ride better around corners / under brakes etc - where it matters.

Keep in mind too my R6 has bog standard suspension and no real engine work yet. So it's basically stock with a quick action throttle and Brembo master cylinder, slip-on exhaust (no Power Commander) quickshifter and rearsets.

Owen I say clean up the Gixer, flog it off and join the R6 club! As for you Dan, maybe sell 2 out of your dozen or so bikes and get one proper sorted race bike?! :P


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[Turbo]

I personally think how you feel on a bike and how much fun you're having is more important than reaching the max potential lap times. I think you'd learn / improve more quickly on an R6 too, esp in Owen's case as he's riding a Gixer 750 so he's going quicker on a bike with less capacity - ie he's not just going quicker cos he has more horsepower, he actually has less. So to me that says the R6 is giving him more confidence / feel to ride better around corners / under brakes etc - where it matters.

Owen I say clean up the Gixer, flog it off and join the R6 club!

That's what I'm saying Spilly, you're totally right - Grin Factor is a great indicator. Just didn't want to bash the gixxers too bad as they're still great bikes!

Anybody want a K7 750??

[Spilly209]

That's what I'm saying Spilly, you're totally right - Grin Factor is a great indicator. Just didn't want to bash the gixxers too bad as they're still great bikes!

Anybody want a K7 750??

This guy from yesterday might want a replacement! Another T1 casualty!




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[dan]

Dan & Rick, I reckon you two should stick with the poor suzukis for a while more. Troopers they are, and reliable. I've squeezed 43s/08s out of my 96 model with original untouched motor, fork revalved and a shock. Someone's got to stick up for the underdog

I agree!

I also like not being too worried about throwing it down the road. Tough as nails.

[chubb]

holy sheet that damage to thr front wheel!!

[senator8]

My comment was a bit tongue in cheek, and directed at Rick and Dan who are already racing them. I agree completely - ride what ever makes you happy or suits you best

[Spilly209]

holy sheet that damage to thr front wheel!!

One funny thing though, they were saying the rider thought the engine might have seized. So they tried to start it and it fired first go and sounded totally fine!!

[Marshy]

I actually don't agree with sticking with a Gixer just because they are capable of better lap times in the right hands. Even if the R6 wasn't faster (which it is), if it's giving you a huge grin factor in comparison on every lap, isn't that what it's all about anyway? Like I'm sure Troy Bayliss can get much better times out of a 999 than I will ever get on my Pani but I wouldn't consider it because it's an inferior motorcycle and nowhere near as much fun.

Very well said!! As soon as I actually got an R6, I was soooooo bummed at myself for having 'stuck with' the gixxers for so long. What a waste!!

[Marshy]

Tough as nails.

Errr, I call bullshit on this (see above). I've never seen a rim do that, ever, except carbon fibre rims. Also, I've seen several cracked and actually snapped frames on gixxers from relatively minor offs. The K8 I bought from the auctions a while back (don't ask) had a massive crack all the way along the inside of the main frame rail surrounding the engine, but the bike wasn't very damaged (it certainly wasn't visible until I pulled it apart). Not on a weld or seam, but just in the middle of the main frame spar. Into the bin for that one.

And see the big weld down the side of the frame, directly under the 'S' on the tank? They snap that weld fairly frequently in crashes. The 1000 had a factory recall to reinforce the frame for that issue, but the smaller bikes went un-rectified, despite snapping there too (although presumably slightly less frequently than the bigger bikes).

To be fair to Suzukis, I think that the older ones (ie pre K6 1000 and K7 600/750) were actually rather tough. But from then on, they've been rubbish.

[Phat3R]

My comment was a bit tongue in cheek, and directed at Rick and Dan who are already racing them. I agree completely - ride what ever makes you happy or suits you best

Knew you were Rick.

Dan should definitely stay with the K3 Gixxer ... (but maybe upgrade the SRAD to a slightly younger K1 backup / rain bike for common parts) for MANY MANY more years.

Dan ... you know it make sense!

[dan]

Errr, I call bullshit on this (see above). I've never seen a rim do that, ever, except carbon fibre rims. Also, I've seen several cracked and actually snapped frames on gixxers from relatively minor offs. The K8 I bought from the auctions a while back (don't ask) had a massive crack all the way along the inside of the main frame rail surrounding the engine, but the bike wasn't very damaged (it certainly wasn't visible until I pulled it apart). Not on a weld or seam, but just in the middle of the main frame spar. Into the bin for that one.

And see the big weld down the side of the frame, directly under the 'S' on the tank? They snap that weld fairly frequently in crashes. The 1000 had a factory recall to reinforce the frame for that issue, but the smaller bikes went un-rectified, despite snapping there too (although presumably slightly less frequently than the bigger bikes).

To be fair to Suzukis, I think that the older ones (ie pre K6 1000 and K7 600/750) were actually rather tough. But from then on, they've been rubbish.

Those ones are fancy pants, no wonder it broke. Mine is made of solid steel. Handles like it too.

[dan]

Knew you were Rick.

Dan should definitely stay with the K3 Gixxer ... (but maybe upgrade the SRAD to a slightly younger K1 backup / rain bike for common parts) for MANY MANY more years.

Dan ... you know it make sense!

Thanks Rick, always got my best interests at heart!

[Phat3R]

Thanks Rick, always got my best interests at heart!

It's not just me ... we were discussing on Sat ... James also agrees ... as does Bob ... ohh f#*k it ... the entire CS600 field that qualified greater than 7th agrees!

You should take Marshy up on his lap on his older R6 offer ... be interesting ... no no ... don't do that ... what was I thinking!

How's the healing ... you putting in your StG form this week?

[dan]

As for you Dan, maybe sell 2 out of your dozen or so bikes and get one proper sorted race bike?! :P


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haha!

For the price of a R6 race bike I have a TZ350 rep, a 1970 H1 500 Kwaka and my K3 gixxer. Way better garage!

I'll be flogging off some of the others to go to the World Cup this year. I got this sorted

[dan]

It's not just me ... we were discussing on Sat ... James also agrees ... as does Bob ... ohh f#*k it ... the entire CS600 field that qualified greater than 7th agrees!

You should take Marshy up on his lap on his older R6 offer ... be interesting ... no no ... don't do that ... what was I thinking!

How's the healing ... you putting in your StG form this week?

Went to the doctor this morning and he said that it is healing at the pace of a professional athlete. For my specific injury (knocking the front off the talus and dislocating the whole thing), to be walking in two months is exceptional.

I actually went for a ride day before yesterday on my RD and it felt alright. I'm going to come out on the 27th and give it a go. Don't know about St George - I'd love to do it but I need to be realistic and not push it. If I hurt it again it really fucks me up for work and for my trip mid year.

[Phat3R]

Went to the doctor this morning and he said that it is healing at the pace of a professional athlete. For my specific injury (knocking the front off the talus and dislocating the whole thing), to be walking in two months is exceptional.

I actually went for a ride day before yesterday on my RD and it felt alright. I'm going to come out on the 27th and give it a go. Don't know about St George - I'd love to do it but I need to be realistic and not push it. If I hurt it again it really fucks me up for work and for my trip mid year.

Hey great to hear Dan ... must have felt good to be back on a bike ... I get a little twitchy if I don't get a fix every once and a while. Good to see you taking a pragmatic view of the situation, hope you make it back in time though. Wait a minute ... what am I saying ...

[dan]

Hey great to hear Dan ... must have felt good to be back on a bike ... I get a little twitchy if I don't get a fix every once and a while. Good to see you taking a pragmatic view of the situation, hope you make it back in time though. Wait a minute ... what am I saying ...

Oh man, it felt great! I kept getting confused with the shifting as it's road style and I couldn't remember where first or neutral was. Got tracklife on my mind...

[Tristan]

The best I have done on my K4 GSXR 750 is 1:47 gp and 2:13 full not the best rider ether so they go alright and mine also had over 40000kms on it to lol.


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[Mr.Ed]

I love my Zx6r, I really do. But I have to admit that the first time I rode my old R6 (2006 model) I was blown away... then again I was coming from a cbr600rr '03, bog stock, road trim. And the R6 was a race bike that had a full Akro/PCV/I.Module/custom map/slicks/etc. Suspension and brakes were standard though other than braided lines. I could not believe how much 'racier' the bike was!! From the riding position to how it rev'ed it was light years ahead of the old cbr. And like others have said, straight away I was faster on it but then again I expected that seeing as the bike had a lot more power and decent tires to start with.

Funnily enough, I hated the ZX6R the first time I rode it... came back to the pits after the first session thinking "You should have never sold the R6, you idiot" and then by the 3rd session I was 2secs faster than I had ever been on the R6!

To me, the ZX6R has the edge in power delivery (if not outright power if comparing stock vs stock) and brakes. ESPECIALLY brakes as I hated the brakes on the R6, SRJLs helped but they were never on pair, then again it could have been something on my bike... who knows?! It's also a lot more planted on fast corners and it allows you to make a LOT of mistakes and live to tell the story where the R6 felt like it was going to make me pay every time I screwed up.

In the end, they're both awesome bikes but I'm now a ZX6R lover and I can't see that changing anytime soon!

[Marshy]

To be fair to the ZX6R, I've never actually ridden one in anger. When I was upgrading from the gixxer, I was lucky enough to have 2 mates - one with a ZX6R and one with an R6 let me do a couple of laps back to back. I did 2 veeeery slow laps on the absolutely pristine, show-bike standard ZX, rode down pit lane and jumped straight onto the R6. They both felt SOOOOOO much better than the gixxer - I was just blown away by both. They both had HEAPS more power! The ZX had much more midrange, but on the R6 I kept bouncing it off the limiter cos it revved SOOOOO FAST that I didn't realise I needed to change gear so quickly!

I was very nervous of the showroom condition bike, so I was really slow, but then on the (still very pretty) R6 I was so comfortable after half a lap that I was knee-down everywhere and pressing on very hard!

I'd be very interested in having a crack at a few hot laps on a Zed, just to compare. Hey, maybe Ed or Little Mick could go swapsies with me for a few laps next time we are out?

[Mr.Ed]

More than welcome to take it out for a spin, mate... God knows I own the whorest of the bikes! hahaha