St George MCC

[chubb]

They are finally seeing some sense.

"All machines will have their radiator fluid physically tested. Machines must be presented to scrutineering with their radiator cap OFF for fluid testing or they will immediately be sent to the back of the queue.
Water is the ONLY acceptable fluid. If any bike is found to be non-compliant at scrutineering they will be given once chance to become compliant. Following this, at ANY stage of the meeting, if a bike is found to be non-compliant then the rider will immediately be disqualified from the meeting without a refund. There are absolutely no exceptions."

25
D–GRADE RIDERS
25.1All D- grade riders, without exception, are required to wear a vest over their leathers as supplied by the Race Secretary. The vest supplied will be signed out with the allocation of the transponder and must be returned with the transponder at the conclusion of the event.
25.2 Should a D - grade rider enter the track at any time without the supplied vest being worn then they will immediately be disqualified from the meeting without a refund. This includes ALL track activity; practice, qualifying and racing.
25.3 See point 16.4 for additional requirement regarding the D - grade Rider Briefing.

10.2.6 Each competitor must supply at least ONE Race Official / Flag Marshal / Recovery Marshal or Office Assistant for one FULL day at any one of the rounds to be eligible for the Series Prizes.
These must not be existing members of the St George MCC Management Committee.


Good to see that they are trying to make things safer for riders around after the November fiasco.... Still always short on flaggies etc... should just pay them..

[Phat3R]

Was there a problem with radiator fluid spills at last meet?

D graders & vests sounds like very sensible, certainly a good reason to want to get the fark out of D grade. But will it make it easier to spot parked bikes further up the grid when the lights go out?

Yes pay the damn flaggies, the SMSP contract requires them to pay tens of thousands for the hundreds of security staff.

[Turbo]

They are finally seeing some sense.
D–GRADE RIDERS
25.1All D- grade riders, without exception, are required to wear a vest over their leathers as supplied by the Race Secretary. The vest supplied will be signed out with the allocation of the transponder and must be returned with the transponder at the conclusion of the event.
25.2 Should a D - grade rider enter the track at any time without the supplied vest being worn then they will immediately be disqualified from the meeting without a refund. This includes ALL track activity; practice, qualifying and racing.
25.3 See point 16.4 for additional requirement regarding the D - grade Rider Briefing


Good to see that they are trying to make things safer for riders around after the November fiasco.... Still always short on flaggies etc... should just pay them..

I'm all for a revision of the rules but I'm not sure a bright vest would have helped me or anybody involved with my incident...
50 bikes is too many for such a short course and the grid spacing, I think, is too close.
What if rookies started from the back of the grid for a period of time??

[Mr.Ed]

I don't think a grid of 20 bikes would have helped you much, mate... it's not like the guy that hit you wasn't 4 rows back.

Also, I do like the idea of the vest too. Yes, it means that if I ever race again (this one is for you wetty) I'll have to wear it but it's only fair and I reckon it will not only make it safer but also weed out some of the trophy chasers.

And seriously, the entry fee is like what these days? 500?? Add another $10 per rider and get rid of the stupid "you must supply a flaggie" idea... it's not like they can't claim those expenses on tax either.

[senator8]

Personally I think it's a disappointing reflection on the entrants that all bikes must be tested. A typical scenario of all being punished for a few.
Both of my bikes means complete fairing removal.

[chubb]

Almost becoming as expensive as a FX round.

And Rick I think it's complete top and bottom removal for most bikes.

[Linden]

Run air cooled ... problem solved ...

[Marshy]

I think there should be a RST (random scrutineering testing) queue, like RBT by the cops. Two rows of normal scrut, and one where bikes in the queue get pulled aside and everything gets properly checked. And throughout the weekend, random inspections in the garages to ensure ongoing compliance. My view is that coolant isn't a particular problem, but that ensuring oil is kept in the engine (or, failing that, in the bellypan) is vastly more important but never properly checked. There are unfortunately too many crashes on people's oil, which should almost never happen. Whereas I can't ever recall coolant causing any issues to anyone.

I also think there's simply no way that people (volunteers!) can realistically check 200+ bikes, and all the gear, in an hour, whilst actually doing a proper job. Either start earlier, finish later, or - my strong recommendation - do most of it on Friday arvo!!

[WETTY]

Finally the flaggie rule is correct, having Jan or anybody else in the tower down as your supplied flaggie was a farkin farce, in 2011 i supplied 2 flaggies at every round bar the 4 hr or 5 or whatever it was , but then you did get 10 points per flaggie , Thats how it should go back to ,!!!!!!! sorry Ed if you have no friends

[WETTY]

I think there should be a RST (random scrutineering testing) queue, like RBT by the cops. Two rows of normal scrut, and one where bikes in the queue get pulled aside and everything gets properly checked. And throughout the weekend, random inspections in the garages to ensure ongoing compliance. My view is that coolant isn't a particular problem, but that ensuring oil is kept in the engine (or, failing that, in the bellypan) is vastly more important but never properly checked. There are unfortunately too many crashes on people's oil, which should almost never happen. Whereas I can't ever recall coolant causing any issues to anyone.

I also think there's simply no way that people (volunteers!) can realistically check 200+ bikes, and all the gear, in an hour, whilst actually doing a proper job. Either start earlier, finish later, or - my strong recommendation - do most of it on Friday arvo!!

Holy shit , its only taken how many years but most of that i harped on yrs ago and ever since

[Marshy]

Holy shit , its only taken how many years but most of that i harped on yrs ago and ever since

Me too. But nobody's listening!

[Leezx10r]

I think it all sounds good to me.
Coolant
Vest
Flags

With the vests will make it easier to workout who to chase & how good / bad am doing lol


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Turbo]

I don't think a grid of 20 bikes would have helped you much, mate... it's not like the guy that hit you wasn't 4 rows back.

Not sure I agree with you there. Yes he was further back, but had riders in front had more space and time to react, his view of me wouldn't have been obscured.
Also, if the grid was more spaced out, qualifying well would make a big difference to the race start.

Totally agree about paying flaggies tho. No big deal to charge it on to the riders. We all really appreciate what they do.

[Nelso]

Not sure I agree with you there. Yes he was further back, but had riders in front had more space and time to react, his view of me wouldn't have been obscured.
Also, if the grid was more spaced out, qualifying well would make a big difference to the race start.

Totally agree about paying flaggies tho. No bid deal to charge it on to the riders. We all really appreciate what they do.

He was next to me on row 7.

[WETTY]

He was next to me on row 7.

were you upstairs in the cafe instead of qualifying ?

[Marshy]

Not sure I agree with you there. Yes he was further back, but had riders in front had more space and time to react, his view of me wouldn't have been obscured.
Also, if the grid was more spaced out, qualifying well would make a big difference to the race start.

Totally agree about paying flaggies tho. No bid deal to charge it on to the riders. We all really appreciate what they do.

Couldn't agree more! I reckon the grid should be capped at 40. 3 bikes to a row, and each row about three times further apart than currently. Looking down on the grid, the actual physical distance between 1st and 50th is, like, 20 metres, with 50 bikes in between. It's MASSIVELY too consolidated into too-small a space. Look at motoGP (and I know their spacing is more about making the grid look artificially fuller) but the spacing is very considerable, which is great for safety.

[WETTY]

Couldn't agree more! I reckon the grid should be capped at 40. 3 bikes to a row, and each row about three times further apart than currently. Looking down on the grid, the actual physical distance between 1st and 50th is, like, 20 metres, with 50 bikes in between. It's MASSIVELY too consolidated into too-small a space. Look at motoGP (and I know their spacing is more about making the grid look artificially fuller) but the spacing is very considerable, which is great for safety.

fark imagine starting from the rear if 1 had a problem the race earlier .

i have come to grid up at the BSFOS , usually always last coming off T12 (so my girl sits on the grid as little as possible) and i have had to pull up at grid spot 38/42 or whatever which is a car spot to get the newbies to roll down the hill into the bike grids , the car grids finish up near the flaggie , i had a chuckle , and no it wasnt Rick .

maybe if when we launch we look ahead till T1 and shift by feel not looking at the Tacho for the 1st 3 gear changes people. i see it all the time and i would be my fibro thats what happened

[Mr.Ed]

! sorry Ed if you have no friends

I must have supplied 10+ flaggies over the years... I even flagged in 2 complete weekends. But IMHO, unless you really like bikes, it's not exactly an enjoyable experience. Well, I like bikes and didn't find it exactly exciting after the first day... I can only imagine what someone who has no idea of what is going on thinks.

Plus, didn't someone say "racing is expensive and if you have no money bla bla bla bla"??

[Marshy]

I must have supplied 10+ flaggies over the years... I even flagged in 2 complete weekends. But IMHO, unless you really like bikes, it's not exactly an enjoyable experience. Well, I like bikes and didn't find it exactly exciting after the first day... I can only imagine what someone who has no idea of what is going on thinks.

Plus, didn't someone say "racing is expensive and if you have no money bla bla bla bla"??

Agree Ed. I love bikes, but I still don't want to sit at a flag point for 2 days in the sun/rain/heat/cold etc. I totally love that people do, as it allows us all to go racing, but I still strongly think we should pay them for doing it! $100 cash, or $150 cash, whatever, for a day. It's not much of an hourly rate, but at least it's recognition of their effort. It would add $5 or $10 to each rider's entry fee... ie ONE OR TWO PERCENT!!! It's a no-brainer.

[WETTY]

If they can pay the flaggies at the gokart meetings they can pay them at the bikes

[Metal-Man]

D graders should only be racing against D graders ... thats why they have levels at SMP ride days etc.
Or, split D & C graders into their own races .. along with A & B graders ... either way something has to change for the better of al involved.

[chubb]

And what... Have even longer delays if all the D graders are numpties?

[dan]

Couldn't agree more! I reckon the grid should be capped at 40. 3 bikes to a row, and each row about three times further apart than currently. Looking down on the grid, the actual physical distance between 1st and 50th is, like, 20 metres, with 50 bikes in between. It's MASSIVELY too consolidated into too-small a space. Look at motoGP (and I know their spacing is more about making the grid look artificially fuller) but the spacing is very considerable, which is great for safety.

Devils advocate here but why 40? Bigger spacing might help with start line incidents but I don't know capping grids is the answer. Big grids make the first lap pretty... interesting but after that things break into groups and everyone has their little battles. Does 50 really make a difference to 40?

How do you work it out? First in? Qualifying? Preference to StG members?

[Mr.Ed]

D graders should only be racing against D graders ... thats why they have levels at SMP ride days etc.
Or, split D & C graders into their own races .. along with A & B graders ... either way something has to change for the better of al involved.

Cant say I agree with that either... 1st of all 'cause of how ppl are graded (can of worms so let's stay out of it for now) also because as a D grader the thing you need the most is a faster rider to chase. And that rider sometimes is a C grader, sometimes is a B grader (if you're a fast D grader) and etc.

The only negative side I can think of re the whole D grade rule is the odd muppet A/B/C riders who has a chip on his/her shoulder and act up when overtaken by a rider wearing the vest. But then again, said muppet rider would probably take offense on anyone overtaking him/her anyway...

[WETTY]

D graders should only be racing against D graders ... thats why they have levels at SMP ride days etc.
Or, split D & C graders into their own races .. along with A & B graders ... either way something has to change for the better of al involved.

think you need to to do the sums on how many A/B grade riders are in the race , There isnt enuf to financially make it economically viable in this economic climate

[Mr.Ed]

Devils advocate here but why 40? Bigger spacing might help with start line incidents but I don't know capping grids is the answer. Big grids make the first lap pretty... interesting but after that things break into groups and everyone has their little battles. Does 50 really make a difference to 40?

How do you work it out? First in? Qualifying? Preference to StG members?

I've started from the back of grid and from the middle (sadly never close to the front other than RYM) and to me 10 less or 10 more wouldn't make that much of difference tbh... the spacing yes. That can actually change things as it would make it harder for ppl from other rows to catch up and overtake during the start. But it would also allow riders from further back to gather even more momentum before getting to T1 in comparison the riders who started at the front... so there's that.

[dan]

think you need to to do the sums on how many A/B grade riders are in the race , There isnt enuf to financially make it economically viable in this economic climate

Exactly. C and D are the people filling the grids. Maybe more penalties for unsporting / dangerous riding will get people to smarten up. That's the real issue, right?

[dan]

I've started from the back of grid and from the middle (sadly never close to the front other than RYM) and to me 10 less or 10 more wouldn't make that much of difference tbh... the spacing yes. That can actually change things as it would make it harder for ppl from other rows to catch up and overtake during the start. But it would also allow riders from further back to gather even more momentum before getting to T1 in comparison the riders who started at the front... so there's that.

They should probably back off if they are coming in too hot like you would at any other corner during any other time of the race. If riders don't and it compromises safety black flag them.

[Condor]

I would like to see a couple spare flags at the start line so riders can volunteer in between races to watch and flag any mishaps from race start.
I would be more then happy to do a few for everyones safety in between my races.

[Mr.Ed]

They should probably back off if they are coming in too hot like you would at any other corner during any other time of the race. If riders don't and it compromises safety black flag them.

Agree 100% but if everyone did what they should we wouldn't even need flaggies

[Carl-52]

ill be wearing a vest for next year... will be great for practice and qualifying so the faster guys have the ability to see newbies even earlier and seeing who i have to beat in the D grade race. Apart from that it wont really make a difference. Maybe 3 to a row on the start would help, but capping bikes on track wont do anything.

[Mr.Ed]

You just want it for the fluoro... hahaha

[Carl-52]

i already asked the question and it is NOT available in fluro yellow :(

[Nelso]

were you upstairs in the cafe instead of qualifying ?

I was on the Premodern GSXR750 that still needs a bit of tweaking. It was VERY interesting being that far back on the grid! and by interesting, I mean scary as fuck!

[Nelso]

maybe if when we launch we look ahead till T1 and shift by feel not looking at the Tacho for the 1st 3 gear changes people. i see it all the time and i would be my fibro thats what happened

This!

What I witness back in the field were people riding with blinkers on all race with no awareness of what was going on around or ahead of them.

[Linden]

ill be wearing a vest for next year... will be great for practice and qualifying so the faster guys have the ability to see newbies even earlier and seeing who i have to beat in the D grade race. Apart from that it wont really make a difference. Maybe 3 to a row on the start would help, but capping bikes on track wont do anything.

You'll be getting a letter in a couple of weeks I'd be guessing

[Linden]

As the guy who has started at the back of more grids than most of you put together ... 3 per row and more spacing will just mean more SPEED by the time you get to the 1st row (maybe we should go old school 6-8 on the front row and next row 1 meter behind) ...

Flaggies by the side of the grid will NOT help anybody ... that not where anybody should be looking and would be an insurance nightmare + reaction time of the flaggie ... it would be all over before the flag moved

Wetty is right (did I say that) heads up and don't try and win off the start line (but the people at the back are NORMALLY new to this) the Nov weekend was not all newbie crashes eg Gary P (is not a learner) and I doubt that Orange vest would have helped in anyway (anyone know if this was a StG idea or one pushed on them)

Maybe TECHNOLOGY - pit limiter with GPS and some software ... back rows limiter comes on UNTIL they pass a slow / stalled bike or the 10M pasted row 1 - lets see PCRA implement that

[Linden]

D graders should only be racing against D graders ... thats why they have levels at SMP ride days etc.
Or, split D & C graders into their own races .. along with A & B graders ... either way something has to change for the better of al involved.

Beau Beatson won (or podium) his first ever race .. against A/B/C graders

I'm C but slower than most D (E) graders

[Kimbo]

Vests are a waste of time, and in some situations can be dangerous. I flagged on the saturday in the heat. I got an esky with food and drink, so I was happy. Panigales have a problem as you cant see their sump plug with the exhaust on. In Victoria , you sign a stat dec. Also if the rules say no coolant, you dont have any trace of coolant. That crash on the line showed two had coolant , and last years big BEARS crash showed coolant being used as well. Hey Linden , how about removing that last line.

[dan]

Re: vests. Is that so the flaggies know who is D grade or the other [higher grade] riders? If you are behind a dude in the vest maybe you should be wearing one too...

I'd be worried about the vest getting caught on the bike if someone went down. Has that been discussed?

I don't have any problem per se with D graders being able to be spotted but I remain unclear on what this solves?

[chubb]

To hopefully get A/B/C graders to give them a little more room while overtaking etc during qually so it's not a mess?

Qually is always a mess with STG. People dawdling around on the track sometimes and 8mins gives you 3 flying laps if you're quick.

[dan]

Stat dec for no coolant is a great idea btw. Ban the rider for a year if they are found to have coolant. Everyone knows that rule there are no excuses.

[dan]

To hopefully get A/B/C graders to give them a little more room while overtaking etc during qually so it's not a mess?

Qually is always a mess with STG. People dawdling around on the track sometimes and 8mins gives you 3 flying laps if you're quick.

Practically, does that really make any difference? You can tell by how quickly you are coming down on someone whether you need to make a little more allowance than usual.

[Kimbo]

In a 5 or 6 lap race the top guys dont lap any c or d graders on the big tracks , maybe Broadford or Morgan Park they would

[Mr.Ed]

Practically, does that really make any difference? You can tell by how quickly you are coming down on someone whether you need to make a little more allowance than usual.

Yes, what you don't know is the likelihood of that 'someone' changing lines or braking early. We have to keep in mind that a lot of D graders are ppl racing for the first time... and a lot of first timers haven't even done a track day in the red group before they race!!

[dan]

Yes, what you don't know is the likelihood of that 'someone' changing lines or braking early. We have to keep in mind that a lot of D graders are ppl racing for the first time... and a lot of first timers haven't even done a track day in the red group before they race!!

And if everyone went out one at a time in qualifying there wouldn't be a problem at all!

If you are catching someone quick assume they aren't as fast, make whatever assumptions you need to make and adjust your decisions accordingly. You should be doing this already don't see what difference a vest makes.

[dan]

If you fast lap gets messed up that sucks but it's racing. If someone is dawdling and causing a safety concern black flag them.

[Mr.Ed]

And if everyone went out one at a time in qualifying there wouldn't be a problem at all!

If you are catching someone quick assume they aren't as fast, make whatever assumptions you need to make and adjust your decisions accordingly. You should be doing this already don't see what difference a vest makes.

It's not meant to be a game changer... it's just something to both help riders identify a potential risk (i.e. newbie rider braking too early/hard/at all into T1) and to somewhat protect new riders against their own mistakes. It's the same as a P plate. Of course it doesn't change anything by just having it there but when I see one trying to zoom in between traffic I keep my distance.

[chubb]

There is a reason why the have vest for newbies in the states and in the UK

[dan]

It's not meant to be a game changer... it's just something to both help riders identify a potential risk (i.e. newbie rider braking too early/hard/at all into T1) and to somewhat protect new riders against their own mistakes. It's the same as a P plate. Of course it doesn't change anything by just having it there but when I see one trying to zoom in between traffic I keep my distance.

So this is just a qualifying issue then?

I think that a vest is potentially dangerous and I don't find any of these arguments convincing enough to render the safety concern of vests getting caught on bikes when they go down.

For racing I'm not sure how it's a relevant issue. I'm happy to be convinced though.