Phillip Island - Rider Critique/ Tips Hints and advice needed.

[WRCPUG]

Hi All

I'm just after some advice for tackling this track and some advice from those that ride/race here and how i can improve my times and speeds around parts of the track.
I don't race just love doing track days when i can afford them.Screenshot_2015-02-17-23-50-46.pngScreenshot_2015-02-17-23-53-12.pngfb.jpgA64H4451.jpgA64H4452.jpg

My best PB was a 1.47 about 2 years ago. The last time i was there (Dec 2014) i was doing consistent 1.48s.
I know its not that fast but if i could get into the low 1.40's one day on this bike i would be very happy.

After watching the latest on board footage that was put up by MEGA on their Facebook page i know that some of my lines i am taking way too wide and losing time.

My bike is a bit of an oldie its a 2004 CBR1000RR
Wilbers Shock
Front has been tweaked and valved for my weight (i'm pretty sure its not an aftermarket cartridge kit)
Brembo 19mm MC
2009 Monoblock CBR calipers and braided lines
Full Micron System and PC3
Running Dunlop Slicks
Running 520 gearing 15-43
HRC short action throttle


The main things i do or have learn't over the years here are

Turn 1- shift down 2 gears and do not touch the brakes
Stoner Corner- I take in 5th(i think) i believe maybe i turn in later than i should
Honda Corner - I shift down into 2nd and hold 2nd until Siberia..again i think my turn in point is mid to outside of the track (bad habit)
Shift up to 5th through the Hayshed and then shift down to 4th for Lukey heights
Shift down to 2nd for MG
Short shift to 4th out of MG
Shift down to 4th for the last corner and try to turn in as late as possible

Tyre wear is always pretty good as i'm not super aggressive on the throttle...i never really feel the rear spin up and dont have any traction issues. I guess ive got an oldschool/cautious mentality of doing everything as smooth as possible and just feeding on the power rather than hitting it hard after the apex.

Now any ideas on what i can do different or things i can improve inc gear selection, turn in points, braking markers ect.

I have also attached a screenshot of the Racechrono data from my 1.48 run. I look at some of the speeds and would love to compare to what others are doing as i think i could be taking some of these corners much faster than i think i can. I have also attached some photos from the track for criqtue on body position ect.

So would love peoples critique and feedback and ways i can improve for my next track day or what your riding tips are when riding around this circuit.
I understand its a bit hard to give advice through words on a forum but maybe i can get some pointers that may help.

Thanks and i look forward to hearing some advice

Cheers

Alex

[DisPlaCeD]

Hey mate... Guess you mean a 520 chain, what sprockets you got on there?

Guess in terms of relevance, 600 laps might be different, so a lap on my 08 GSXR1000 (15/43) was like this...

Turn 1 - 5th gear, depending on testicular fortitude, first or second white line on left of track as your braking marker.
T2 - 2nd gear, treat it as a double apex and stand the bike up on exit for full throttle, use the whole track.
T3 - balls to the wall
T4 - 2nd gear, use the rev range to Siberia (T5)
Hayshed - Can probably hold 4th to Lukey
MG 2nd, short shift to 3rd before T11, let it rev.

4th before T12, hold it on.
Change gears less, ride more.

Maybe it's just me, but your body work looks to be scraping on the ground, so greater lean angle (not MotoGP or WSBK tech/skill level), might take you longer to stand the bike up on the meaty part of the tyre, hence, slowing the time it takes to get on full throttle, and losing time. Unless you're aggressive with picking the bike up?

Hope anything I say here is helpful. Or if more experienced lads decide to rip my advice to shreds, so be it. lol


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[Kris]

If your not braking for Turn 1, your're loosing huge amounts of time. I found that any corner for which I do not brake, means that I'm not entering fast enough. Your entry speeds I suspect are an issue.

I also found that a very fast steering bike is the key to finishing off turns correctly which is imperative for the right line which subsequently allows more throttle input.

Not comparing my data to yours, I can see that your mid corner speed in Stoner could come up alot. That just takes practice. Not sure if its RaceChrono but on a 1000 id expect to see 265-275 for top speed on the straight - certainly when I was with you there in Dec, my speed was 274, equated to 1.41.9 or something. If your speed isnt up there, your problem is most likely back at the end of MG - get the line right, get your drive right across the section between T11/T12 and watch your top speed come up... that final section is very, very critical. So maybe pick a section and just focus on that

[WETTY]

Hey mate... Guess you mean a 520 chain, what sprockets you got on there?

Guess in terms of relevance, 600 laps might be different, so a lap on my 08 GSXR1000 (15/43) was like this...

Turn 1 - 5th gear, depending on testicular fortitude, first or second white line on left of track as your braking marker.
T2 - 2nd gear, treat it as a double apex and stand the bike up on exit for full throttle, use the whole track.
T3 - balls to the wall
T4 - 2nd gear, use the rev range to Siberia (T5)
Hayshed - Can probably hold 4th to Lukey
MG 2nd, short shift to 3rd before T11, let it rev.

4th before T12, hold it on.
Change gears less, ride more.

Maybe it's just me, but your body work looks to be scraping on the ground, so greater lean angle (not MotoGP or WSBK tech/skill level), might take you longer to stand the bike up on the meaty part of the tyre, hence, slowing the time it takes to get on full throttle, and losing time. Unless you're aggressive with picking the bike up?

Hope anything I say here is helpful. Or if more experienced lads decide to rip my advice to shreds, so be it. lol


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please stop it

[DisPlaCeD]

please stop it

Put your opinion up then, King.


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[Marshy]

Put your opinion up then, King.

Don't be silly; Wetty hasn't ridden at the Island. At least, not since about the time Noah was looking for a career change

[Kris]

Don't be silly; Wetty hasn't ridden at the Island. At least, not since about the time Noah was looking for a career change

isnt it like riding a bike hehe :P

[WETTY]

Put your opinion up then, King.


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i dont have an opinion just dont like seeing/reading someone with no idea leading another up that garden path

remember its all won in the shed

[Marshy]

remember its all won in the shed

Faaark that R1 is fast!!

[WETTY]

Faaark that R1 is fast!!

very hard to ride that big girl . ol mates 996 owed him a billion , i apologized for gettin in his way









not

[DisPlaCeD]

i dont have an opinion just dont like seeing/reading someone with no idea leading another up that garden path

remember its all won in the shed

Don't have an opinion? That's a laugh... You always have one. We're all here to learn, if I've said something incorrect, then how about you correct me? The garden path only goes as far as you let it. Instead you provide nothing constructive to any conversation. Anyone would think with your decades of riding experience you could help people, instead it's demeaning and destructive comments, for what purpose?!


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[WETTY]

Don't have an opinion? That's a laugh... You always have one. We're all here to learn, if I've said something incorrect, then how about you correct me? The garden path only goes as far as you let it. Instead you provide nothing constructive to any conversation. Anyone would think with your decades of riding experience you could help people, instead it's demeaning and destructive comments, for what purpose?!


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Just stop it
Go have a look at your front guard then a good look at yourself in the mirror

[Marshy]

Allow me to translate from Wettyspeak....

Thanks Alex for posing the original question about improving your laptimes at the Island. Please be aware that whilst we have a bunch of Melbournites on TT, most of the knowledgebase is Sydney based and thus can only speak with any authority about the Creek. Moreover, improving laptimes is a very personal thing, and if your times aren't currently roughly equivalent with other riders on similar machinery, then you have room to improve but it's hard to articulate how you can do that without seeing video or following you around for a few laps. Certainly your body position looks fine in the photos, so it's not immediately obvious where to drop 5 seconds. If I had something to compare it against, I'm sure the racechrono data would suggest that your mid-corner speed has room for improvement, but I'm fairly certain you knew that already.

There may be other opinions posted here about what other riders do around the Island in various turns or braking points etc. Please take these with a ton of salt; without a declaration of the laptimes of those involved, plus identical data being made available indicating speeds at the exact same points on the track, these opinions may rightly be considered fun to read on an internet bike forum but should not be relied on when tipping into T1 at 300kph.

Beyond that, the general advice of 'brake less and tip in faster' might assist you in improving entry and mid-corner speed. Picking up the throttle gently but earlier in the turn will usually assist corner exit speed also. In additional, there's also no substitute for seat time. Superbike School or other coaching opportunities may also assist.

Again, thanks for your question, and thanks also to Grant for his reply; it was interesting reading about your version of a lap of PI, which differs to mine and may or may not be useful to answering Alex's question.

[WETTY]

Thats what i meant )))))))))

[Mr.Ed]

Basically from "Palestinian" to Swiss

[Marshy]

Thats what i meant )))))))))

[DisPlaCeD]

Thats what i meant )))))))))

Ooooh right. Thanks for the translation Marshy. Here I am still looking in the mirror hahaha


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[Linden]

Allow me to translate from Wettyspeak....

You gonna do this for all his post .... you're gonna be busy

[Marshy]

People pick it up in time. Hang around a bit and it doesn't need translating any longer.

[WETTY]

Ooooh right. Thanks for the translation Marshy. Here I am still looking in the mirror hahaha


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still pickin up and puttin down stuff for no reason ?

[Binksy]

WRCPUG you going to be down at the island on the 9th and 10th? Might not be able to offer any advise but it's good to catch up with people of a similar pace. I was doing just a bit under 48's last time I was down there on the 600.

[Marshy]

still pickin up and puttin down stuff for no reason ?

Translation:
Hi Grant, how are you? I hope you're well. Are you still into weightlifting? I only ask because you mentioned you were looking in the mirror again, which was probably a joke, but it might have basis in fact. I look forward to your reply.




I missed my calling.... I should've been a diplomat.

[chubb]

Translation:
Hi Grant, how are you? I hope you're well. Are you still into weightlifting? I only ask because you mentioned you were looking in the mirror again, which was probably a joke, but it might have basis in fact. I look forward to your reply.




I missed my calling.... I should've been a diplomat.

Hahaha really. Where is Michael Jackson???

[Mr.Ed]

Translation:
Hi Grant, how are you? I hope you're well. Are you still into weightlifting? I only ask because you mentioned you were looking in the mirror again, which was probably a joke, but it might have basis in fact. I look forward to your reply.




I missed my calling.... I should've been a diplomat.

[WRCPUG]

Allow me to translate from Wettyspeak....

Thanks Alex for posing the original question about improving your laptimes at the Island. Please be aware that whilst we have a bunch of Melbournites on TT, most of the knowledgebase is Sydney based and thus can only speak with any authority about the Creek. Moreover, improving laptimes is a very personal thing, and if your times aren't currently roughly equivalent with other riders on similar machinery, then you have room to improve but it's hard to articulate how you can do that without seeing video or following you around for a few laps. Certainly your body position looks fine in the photos, so it's not immediately obvious where to drop 5 seconds. If I had something to compare it against, I'm sure the racechrono data would suggest that your mid-corner speed has room for improvement, but I'm fairly certain you knew that already.

There may be other opinions posted here about what other riders do around the Island in various turns or braking points etc. Please take these with a ton of salt; without a declaration of the laptimes of those involved, plus identical data being made available indicating speeds at the exact same points on the track, these opinions may rightly be considered fun to read on an internet bike forum but should not be relied on when tipping into T1 at 300kph.

Beyond that, the general advice of 'brake less and tip in faster' might assist you in improving entry and mid-corner speed. Picking up the throttle gently but earlier in the turn will usually assist corner exit speed also. In additional, there's also no substitute for seat time. Superbike School or other coaching opportunities may also assist.

Again, thanks for your question, and thanks also to Grant for his reply; it was interesting reading about your version of a lap of PI, which differs to mine and may or may not be useful to answering Alex's question.

Thanks Nick for the advice. I definitely agree its hard to give advice over the internet and really don't expect a solution this way, my post was more so to see what others were doing at certain points on the track.

As Chris said on his post he DOES brake for Turn 1 yet others i have spoken to don't brake. (what do you do Nick if you don't mind me asking?) I understand everyone has their own style, techniques and as there are racers on here would prob like to keep things to themselves but id love to see some other peoples GPS data just to compare if your willing to share.

Yeah as you said i think ill try for a faster tip in and i think i need to tighten up my lines as I'm tipping in later and wider than i need to which i think is hampering my corner speeds. Ill try to just focus on that next time in at the track

As for Superbike school i did the 1st level back in 2006 and it was great. Would love to do the others but they are seriously expensive right now. Any information i can get on riding tips is great i know to take alot with a grain of salt but its always good to take everything on board, sort through the shit and see what works for me, my bike and my riding style. You never stop learning on any type of bike so I'm all ears.

Wetty- thanks for that vid...any on-board vids are always good viewing to see what others are doing in terms of lines and braking/tip in points.

[James_]

Did Noah get into selling sony handycams in the PI carpark? rubbish.

[WETTY]

Did Noah get into selling sony handycams in the PI carpark? rubbish.

i didnt and dont carry filming apparatus, i have people for that

[Marshy]

i have people for that

You sure do (I say, looking at myself)

[WETTY]

You sure do (I say, looking at myself)

were gopro's even about back in 09?

[Marshy]

were gopro's even about back in 09?

I was using one of those keychain camera thingamajigs.

[WETTY]

I was using one of those keychain camera thingamajigs.

so the footage is okish then .

i'm bringin out my cam stuff 2moro , will need your sexpertise . not gunna be much of a camera man 4u tho, running in old bangers for BSFOS

[Marshy]

i'm bringin out my cam stuff 2moro

Faark, you've been hiding this well! Never seen it in the flesh.... wasn't convinced it actually existed!

[WETTY]

McNuffin handed it down

[dan]

Did Noah get into selling sony handycams in the PI carpark? rubbish.

Out the back of the pub at San Remo maybe. Strong race though.


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