Clubsport Unlimited build

[Marshy]

So I was thinking of my love of the mighty RSV4, and of the St George championship next year (the plan was to do ASBK, but the calendar is f@#ked, so then maybe FX but the rules are f@#ked), and I saw an opportunity to build a Clubsport Unlimited bike for next season.

It's an 09 RSV4 Factory, and for those not up to speed on the model differences, this is two years before APRC (Aprilia Performance Ride Control - TC, LC, WC). Otherwise they are pretty similar to the current offering. The steering head angles, swingarm pivot point and engine mounting heights are all different to the current bike, but are adjustable (being the Factory, not the R model). The engine is essentially the same. A few little things are different (tank shape, radiator mounts, calipers etc), but much of it is the same.

Only 5,200kms, and hardly any damage besides a big ding in the left side of the frame.

[Marshy]

So let's see what we have here....

First up is a busted swingarm lug, so out comes the swingarm (and pretty much everything else while I'm at it, for a once-over and to clean the oil out of the airbox. Bikes almost always end up with oil in the airbox when they've fallen over - the breather from the gearbox carries oil straight into the airbox).

[Marshy]

The entire engine is covered in fresh oil and grime.... I reckon the bike has been sitting unridden for a good period of time and the gaskets have dried out a bit. Then it's been run and oil has weeped out everywhere. And I mean everywhere. Every cover is weeping.

It looks terrible, but a quick spray of degreaser and it looks like new! You know it's not old, been-there-forever grime when it doesn't need brushing or scrubbing to get it off. Looks like new with a quick squirt of degreaser and water.

[Kris]

09 model needs just about ALL gaskets replaced, because nearly every single one of them has a defect. Would replace them all with the latest spec gaskets

[chubb]

Where do you get your coin Nick?? I want in

[Leezx10r]

Where do you get all the rsv4 in the country from?
Great build btw, could you run arpc in unlimited?
If so aaron just fitted it to his 09 rsv4f

[Kimbo]

The back cylinder gaskets leak, Aprilia have changed the design 3 times. Because the cover is bolted on across the middle and not around the outside they flex and they can blow out in the corners. Mine leaked in Darwin 2 years ago. Got another one send up from Dave Ward. 3 bonded it in , hasnt leaked since. also they leaked oil out of the spark plug drain with the older gaskets

[Marshy]

Where do you get your coin Nick?? I want in

It's all debt-financed, mate. You don't want any of that action, trust me. Unsustainable, but I just can't help myself!!!

Where do you get all the rsv4 in the country from?
Great build btw, could you run arpc in unlimited?
If so aaron just fitted it to his 09 rsv4f

I have my sources

Yes, you can run APRC in Clubsport. There are essentially no rules apart from build date. And I was thinking about adding APRC, but now I reckon I'll just run it old skool as-is. Michael McMillan doesn't run any of the electronics on his current model bikes, so how bad could it be?!?

I would be very keen to hear from Aaron what he thought of the difference with APRC added. Calling Breezey??

[Marshy]

The back cylinder gaskets leak, Aprilia have changed the design 3 times. Because the cover is bolted on across the middle and not around the outside they flex and they can blow out in the corners. Mine leaked in Darwin 2 years ago. Got another one send up from Dave Ward. 3 bonded it in , hasnt leaked since. also they leaked oil out of the spark plug drain with the older gaskets

It's farken bucketing out everywhere!! It's like the motor has Ebola and is haemorrhaging all over....

[Mstevo]

Clubsport will be very close racing next year, just what I need to push through to the next level
might have to drop 5kilo's or more over Christmas to stay at the very pointy end... don't like my chances lol

[Marshy]

might have to drop 5kilo's or more over Christmas

You're already skin and bones!! Just think of us more.... errr... portly gentlemen.

[senator8]

You're already skin and bones!! Just think of us more.... errr... portly gentlemen.

Thinking I might start playing again in retro next year and if the rules don't change come and play with BM in CS unlimited the following year.
You do find em Nick!

[Baddie]

Thinking I might start playing again in retro next year and if the rules don't change come and play with BM in CS unlimited the following year.
You do find em Nick!

Sweetness what year model is the Jew burner?

[senator8]

[Mstevo]

You're already skin and bones!! Just think of us more.... errr... portly gentlemen.

not a chance mate!
especially when you doing 36's ;-)

[Turbo]

Soooo, I'm seeing what's coming off....
What's to go on it??

[Marshy]

Soooo, I'm seeing what's coming off....
What's to go on it??

There are a pile of new parts already sitting waiting to go on.... pics very soon!

[tempest]

great build and i can't wait to see you out there but this is why the CS classes are fu*ked!

not hating the players, disliking the rules!!

[Marshy]

great build and i can't wait to see you out there but this is why the CS classes are fu*ked!

not hating the players, disliking the rules!!

I don't totally agree there, mate, although I do see your point. I'd happily accept changes to the rules to curb costs or whatever. But the basic premise that different bikes become eligible each year keeps things very interesting, IMHO. I luuuurve that the the 08 R6 became eligible. Same with the 08 CBR1000 in Unlimited (although dunno if anyone is running one) etc.

I would TOTALLY support the basic change to YEAR MODEL, NOT compliance plate!! I paid a massive premium to get an '07 plated '08 R6, which even I think is really, really stoopid!

Hey, why don't we submit a rule change proposal for 2016?? Or even next year, so long as the bike I bought specially isn't subsequently excluded?

What else would you change?? It's 'our club', after all. Thoughts?

[Marshy]

Just for everyone's info, all VINs have the year model code as the 10th digit (numbers from 0 to 9 for 2000 to 2009, then A, B, C etc). No need for a build date on a compliance plate to easily check eligibility in scrutineering.

[tempest]

I don't totally agree there, mate, although I do see your point. I'd happily accept changes to the rules to curb costs or whatever. But the basic premise that different bikes become eligible each year keeps things very interesting, IMHO. I luuuurve that the the 08 R6 became eligible. Same with the 08 CBR1000 in Unlimited (although dunno if anyone is running one) etc.

I would TOTALLY support the basic change to YEAR MODEL, NOT compliance plate!! I paid a massive premium to get an '07 plated '08 R6, which even I think is really, really stoopid!

Hey, why don't we submit a rule change proposal for 2016?? Or even next year, so long as the bike I bought specially isn't subsequently excluded?

What else would you change?? It's 'our club', after all. Thoughts?

i'm happy too as my bikes have fallen into the CS class because of the rules! i'm not having a shot at you (i'm jealous you have the resources to do what you do!).

yes it is stoopid we can pay big $$$ just to get a chassis with the 'right' compliance plate. i was lucky had bikes built at the right time of the year for these rules. it's silly any of us can go have the ability to simply have a chassis that was built and stamped >5yrs ago but completely gutt it and fill it full of current spec everything because the basic geometry is the same.

my perception of the idea of CS is to allow an easier introduction into racing and people to utilise "old" race bikes competitively at club level without being hosed by current spec machinery.
this was relevant when manufacturers were updating bikes every 2 yrs but it been many more years since most of the players have released a "new" model.

i was of the understanding the club had no interest in changing the CS rules of rolling build date of >5yrs old. remember we have a club that will allow '636' bikes to race in the 600cc class despite the 'rules' clearly stating otherwise.

do we want to go down the path of PCRA style 'if it was in that era/year and has remained unchanged since". use the zx6r for example. my 11/08 model is identical to the 2014 plate zx6r that i can walk into a dealer and buy tomorrow. they are the same bike! we all know there are other examples out there.

so where too from here.... overhaul the CS idea/class? bikes with carbs only? a list of eligible bikes? a longer rolling period >8yrs? do nothing?

personally i'd like to see the minimum age extended to match the 'lack of development' from the manufacturers. essentially to exclude atleast the current spec model and if not the previous generation also.

this is just a late night rant post work so hopefully it makes some sense!

[Marshy]

i'm not having a shot at you

That didn't even occur to me, mate. It's just interesting banter!

Good questions there too. Agreed about the 'current spec' thing, although what constitutes a change in model is open to differences of opinion! In my view, the complete lack of TC and electrickery makes the 09 RSV4 a totally different model to the current one.... The fact that the motor/frame/suspension etc are only very minorly different (or are identical) makes no nevermind to me!

Too old and you get firmly into PCRA territory, which doesn't interest me. Nor does the strict rules of that category, although to my mind the biggest failing with PCRA is that the age never increases. So bikes that are the best of the time will retain massive value above their nominal value (a green ZX7RRR springs to mind). Same with carbies versus FI - the carb class will not increase in age, ever.

I'm not fussed about the 636 thing, either. I don't think it's particularly advantageous compared to what some people do to their 600 motors (I'm looking at you, Stu and chubb).

Prestons run an 8 year cutoff (I think), which might be better. Currently eligible bikes would have to be grandfathered for a couple of years, of course

And YEAR MODEL, not build date!! I can't say that clearly enough!

But building a fast bike out of an older (slightly) model is fun fun fun! Many of us on here greatly enjoy the engineering challenges, so it's hard to think of anything that could be easily changed without taking away that aspect of the challenge/enjoyment/involvement. In terms of cost, much of it is time and labour, so it doesn't have to be massively expensive (I've never done any engine work at all on any of my bikes, and all the Apes are still running standard headers with just a slipon). A few guys get into the engine stuff a bit, but I don't think anyone is going stupid with it.

Mostly I reckon it's the rider!! I mean, to win last year it wasn't the bike particularly (stock R6 with the usual add-ons - suspension, exhaust, Bazzaz, QS), but rather the amount of track time and practice practice practice I put in. I set a stretch goal and worked really hard to achieve it. For others, it's just having fun at a club racing event, and results aren't so important. In which case, it doesn't really matter how competitive or otherwise their bike is!

Mostly I just want a class where I'm not racing Sean Condon et al....

[Mr.Ed]

The only thing re the longer cutoff date is that older bike will 99% of the time mean more $ on maintenance and that sort of defeats the purpose of a cheaper/easier intro into racing. 8 years might be the magic number but good luck finding an 8yo bike you can hang on to for 2-3 years without spending a fair bit refreshing things at some stage.

Having said that, I'm sure someone will point out that racing is not cheap and bla bla bla... not denying any of that just pointing out that if you buy an 8yo bike, there's a good chance it will cost more than buying a current model in the long run and then when you try and sell it 2-3 years later it probably won't be a nice financial experience.

[Little Mick]

I have an old girl that fits that bill Ed..

in all seriousness, it has been very reliable and relatively low cost to maintain... and it is capable (in the right hands) of mid to low 1:40s at smsp and has been know to do 1:05s at wacky.... I would happily play with her if the rules were so inclined...

I would suggest (as we did last year and early this year) suspension technology would be a guidance - at least sub class it.... you can buy an older bike for around 3K and "learn" how not to crash on it... I mean lets face it... we all need to cut our teeth somewhere.... there is the retro class (which has all the same issues) but it is run concurrent with other classes and the cut off date is 95 so the R6 still doesn't apply in that...The old girl has been orphaned....

[Linden]

It's not just the CS look at Twin Sprints ... created to get cheap racing and give the 400s some extra fodder ... and we get bikes like mine (owes me < $2000 after 5years/5,500 km of racing - $7,000 build) and there are 2 696 that are probably worth north of $20,000 and on short track scare much bigger bikes - I'm talking <1.03 at Broadford

So what's the answer ... I like the bucket idea that you have to be prepared sell your bike for < $X,000 if you finish in top 3 of class ... that would stop mega development

[Mstevo]

Preston MCC's pre modern class has a 10 year rule so my 05 R1 qualifies for them this year, which I'm looking at making my main series, different tracks different opposition etc
Hartwell MCC I thought was the same but Nick say's 8 years(seems strange to have different classes in the same state when your sourcing for the same pool of racers)

As far as St George clubsport goes the 2 front runners this year are running 05 bikes, however an 08 Suzuki and 09 Yamaha have at times been pushing them very hard, it's the top end speed and how quick you get there that is the biggest difference with the younger bikes.

So with Nick deciding to come play and a few of the 2010 Honda's looking to drop down as well, 2015 will be very challenging, and there will be an increasing difference between the fastest and the slowest in the class
I'm sure the spectators will like the close cleaner racing, as will the competitors.

[Marshy]

I was just mis-remembering with the 8 year comment, Stevo. You'd have a better idea than me of the actual rules. And I keep forgetting the sheer validity of Ed's comments re resale and maintenance of older bikes (which is also why I don't want to get into PCRA or Retro or anything like that).

Sooooo (as we do every couple of years), here we are right back at the beginning, which is that the current rules are pretty close to perfect!!

Certainly the CS 600 class has grown exponentially over the last few years (as older 'current model' bikes have become eligible) to be the largest class at St George. You can't argue with that! If it ain't broke.....

[chubb]

I'm not fussed about the 636 thing, either. I don't think it's particularly advantageous compared to what some people do to their 600 motors (I'm looking at you, Stu and chubb).

wait wha??? *feigns ignorance*

So with Nick deciding to come play and a few of the 2010 Honda's looking to drop down as well, 2015 will be very challenging, and there will be an increasing difference between the fastest and the slowest in the class
I'm sure the spectators will like the close cleaner racing, as will the competitors.

as long as its clean racing.. The last St George round has me thinking about still competing next year (not to mention money as well the 600 crash buggered me up). Certain people get all precious when you are close but still clean. And other certain people just do anything to have a win (which is probably also why there were so many red flag and crashes. Sometimes I think its better just to do track days but then again who knows..

maybe they should do away with clubsports altogether and just run a single class for both 600 & 1000 each

[Negrogrande]

maybe they should do away with clubsports altogether and just run a single class for both 600 & 1000 each

then there would be 50 bike grids. way scarier than having them split.

I like the rules as is. I think it should be year model but, no biggie in the grand scheme of things

[Saturnalian]

But building a fast bike out of an older (slightly) model is fun fun fun! Many of us on here greatly enjoy the engineering challenges, so it's hard to think of anything that could be easily changed without taking away that aspect of the challenge/enjoyment/involvement. In terms of cost, much of it is time and labour, so it doesn't have to be massively expensive

Mostly I reckon it's the rider!! I mean, to win last year it wasn't the bike particularly (stock R6 with the usual add-ons - suspension, exhaust, Bazzaz, QS), but rather the amount of track time and practice practice practice I put in. I set a stretch goal and worked really hard to achieve it. For others, it's just having fun at a club racing event, and results aren't so important. In which case, it doesn't really matter how competitive or otherwise their bike is!

I think i'm a fair testament to these points.
All good results are about the rider. Until you are already getting good results it will not be about the bike when it comes to getting better results.

I thoroughly enjoyed building my project bike and not only is it a weapon to gaze upon, in the right hands it will be an absolute weapon to race.
As a result of this build though, i have ridden so much less in the last year than the the 3 previous years and, all toys and HP aside, i was slower at the end of this year then i was last year.

I now have something to work on for the next few years and something to do it with....

[Mstevo]

Jamie, when you build something so nice it's always in the back of your mind "I don't want to crash it" due to emotional attachment from hours of labour and then there's the many $$$ that's been spent
when you loose both those fears it gets easier to push your riding limits to match the bikes limits

[senator8]

Just for everyone's info, all VINs have the year model code as the 10th digit (numbers from 0 to 9 for 2000 to 2009, then A, B, C etc). No need for a build date on a compliance plate to easily check eligibility in scrutineering.

So is it build date from the vin or compliance date for CS?
Mines 08

[Marshy]

So is it build date from the vin or compliance date for CS?
Mines 08

It's technically compliance plate date, but I'd ask the club for a 'ruling' that they'll accept build date. It shouldn't matter when it was complied. Same same as the question over year model, rather than build (or compliance?) date. But the current rules are to make it easy for scrutineering, I believe. It also removes any ambiguity. It's either 12/08 (or earlier) or it's not. Simple. Volunteer scrutineers don't need to know the intricacies of model years and variants to know whether a bike is eligible.

[Marshy]

as long as its clean racing.. The last St George round has me thinking about still competing next year (not to mention money as well the 600 crash buggered me up). Certain people get all precious when you are close but still clean. And other certain people just do anything to have a win (which is probably also why there were so many red flag and crashes. Sometimes I think its better just to do track days but then again who knows..

maybe they should do away with clubsports altogether and just run a single class for both 600 & 1000 each

Mostly I think this is an inexperience issue. There's too many people on the grid, and novices mixed in with experienced racers. I've got a few ideas we can throw around later.

But I wouldn't throw the baby out with the bathwater, chubb. Most bigger meets (FX, ASBK) don't have anywhere near so many crashes!

[chubb]

It's technically compliance plate date, but I'd ask the club for a 'ruling' that they'll accept build date. It shouldn't matter when it was complied. Same same as the question over year model, rather than build (or compliance?) date. But the current rules are to make it easy for scrutineering, I believe. It also removes any ambiguity. It's either 12/08 (or earlier) or it's not. Simple. Volunteer scrutineers don't need to know the intricacies of model years and variants to know whether a bike is eligible.

lately they don't even check.. they haven't been for the last 3 rounds

[chubb]

Mostly I think this is an inexperience issue. There's too many people on the grid, and novices mixed in with experienced racers. I've got a few ideas we can throw around later.

But I wouldn't throw the baby out with the bathwater, chubb. Most bigger meets (FX, ASBK) don't have anywhere near so many crashes!

hmmm really need to know what we are doing next year (bloody governments!!)... Time to sell the R6

[senator8]

It's technically compliance plate date, but I'd ask the club for a 'ruling' that they'll accept build date. It shouldn't matter when it was complied. Same same as the question over year model, rather than build (or compliance?) date. But the current rules are to make it easy for scrutineering, I believe. It also removes any ambiguity. It's either 12/08 (or earlier) or it's not. Simple. Volunteer scrutineers don't need to know the intricacies of model years and variants to know whether a bike is eligible.

Thanks for that. Not keen to ride the big bike in club racing next year. Was just out of interest, as I've never really studied the CS rules. I'll do FX and spend the year getting back what I lost during the year off and developing myself as a rider.
I don't ever want to be mid pack at a club meeting, ever again.

[Saturnalian]

I don't ever want to be mid pack at a club meeting, ever again.

Waaahhh


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[senator8]

Waaahhh


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You'll be there one day Jamie.
Did I get it right?

3 races, hit or near hit and taken off track for 2 of them - no thanks.

[Saturnalian]

Boom !! There it is


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[WETTY]

so which to ride ? mmmmmmmm??




yes they are Kevs old girls

[Marshy]

Hell yeah!! Decisions decisions.

I was chatting with the ginger the other day, and he said nobody but Kevvie could ride one of those. Scared him, I think he said, when he rode it. Reckoned you struggled a bit with it too..... But I was thinking it'd suit you: a gazillion horsepowers, but doesn't go around corners.

[WETTY]

KC1 has been in hibernation since I tamed it
Took zeno a few goes but we got it rideable (note "it" not her coz it's a beast above 10k) and I did a good time on it then I climbed aboard the new 10rr and it never turned a wheel
Now scarey is EVA the gas chamber mistress , she cooked me good n proper , harder to tame

[Nelso]

The only thing re the longer cutoff date is that older bike will 99% of the time mean more $ on maintenance and that sort of defeats the purpose of a cheaper/easier intro into racing. 8 years might be the magic number but good luck finding an 8yo bike you can hang on to for 2-3 years without spending a fair bit refreshing things at some stage.

Mine is an '04, has been raced for the last 6 years and hasn't had the engine opened, ever. I have seen two other first gen and one second gen ZX10's that were set up for racing (full of good bits), sell in the last few months and none of them went for more than $4000. Tell me again how these new bikes like the one Marshy is building are going to be cheaper than the 8 to 10 year old bikes. The fact of the matter is, that building up a 5 year old bike will give you a competitive edge over the other riders, but it will cost a shit load more than running an older bike.

[Nelso]

But I wouldn't throw the baby out with the bathwater, chubb. Most bigger meets (FX, ASBK) don't have anywhere near so many crashes!

Most St George meets don't have anywhere near as many crashes.

I think we can all agree that last weekend was just plain ridiculous.

[Nelso]

I was just mis-remembering with the 8 year comment, Stevo. You'd have a better idea than me of the actual rules. And I keep forgetting the sheer validity of Ed's comments re resale and maintenance of older bikes (which is also why I don't want to get into PCRA or Retro or anything like that).

Sooooo (as we do every couple of years), here we are right back at the beginning, which is that the current rules are pretty close to perfect!!

Certainly the CS 600 class has grown exponentially over the last few years (as older 'current model' bikes have become eligible) to be the largest class at St George. You can't argue with that! If it ain't broke.....

They are only perfect for those that have the money to keep upgrading. For those that can't afford to change bikes (and there's a lot more than just me) it gets harder to keep up with the Kardashians.

I think CS600 has grown so much for a number of reasons, one of which might be because you have sold so many R6's to potential racers in the last 12 months.

[senator8]

btw Rob, your signature is out of date

[senator8]

Mine is an '04, has been raced for the last 6 years and hasn't had the engine opened, ever. I have seen two other first gen and one second gen ZX10's that were set up for racing (full of good bits), sell in the last few months and none of them went for more than $4000. Tell me again how these new bikes like the one Marshy is building are going to be cheaper than the 8 to 10 year old bikes. The fact of the matter is, that building up a 5 year old bike will give you a competitive edge over the other riders, but it will cost a shit load more than running an older bike.

I would agree. There's little to no running cost difference between my two bikes that are 14 years apart (tyres excluded). The engine in the older bike was strong, looked like new inside and probably would have served me for ages longer except for a leaking pesky little welsh plug.

[chubb]

They are only perfect for those that have the money to keep upgrading. For those that can't afford to change bikes (and there's a lot more than just me) it gets harder to keep up with the Kardashians.

I think CS600 has grown so much for a number of reasons, one of which might be because you have sold so many R6's to potential racers in the last 12 months.

600s hasnt really changed since 06... Stu's 06 is still very very competitive... he's just getting old to ride it thats all..

[WETTY]

Nelso fark u cry about how much it costs
Go take up chess and stop moaning
Now where is that new silicone implant for my toot